BaL 7.01.23 - Mahler: Symphony no. 6 in A minor

[richardfinegold]

Coming in rather late here, but that BPO/Barbirolli Mahler 6 is an extraordinary thing. There is so much that is 'wrong' about it but somehow it is probably the Mahler 6 I listen to the most often. Not just despite the 'wrong' things but in one case because of them: the hammer is metal, which is a flagrant contradiction of Mahler's specification but in a symphony premiered in Essen in 1906 somehow gruesomely appropriate. That's not all it has going for it, of course—I don't know any other recording where the second subject of the first movement and the climax of the Andante surge quite so irresistibly.

It’s a minority opinion here, but I just find it massively turgid. It’s like watching Hannibal attack with lame elephants

[oliver sudden]

It’s a minority opinion here, but I just find it massively turgid. It’s like watching Hannibal attack with lame elephants

Just curious, but do you mean the live BPO (which I was talking about) or the studio NPO? I'm not sure if I've seen any particular talk hereabouts concerning the former whereas I could certainly see where you're coming from concerning the latter without actually being of that opinion myself

[richardfinegold]

Just curious, but do you mean the live BPO (which I was talking about) or the studio NPO? I'm not sure if I've seen any particular talk hereabouts concerning the former whereas I could certainly see where you're coming from concerning the latter without actually being of that opinion myself

What does NPO stand for? Anyway I only know the Berlin PO performance, which as been discussed at various times in this Forum

[Alison]

What does NPO stand for? Anyway I only know the Berlin PO performance, which as been discussed at various times in this Forum

New Philharmonia Orchestra

[oliver sudden]

What does NPO stand for? Anyway I only know the Berlin PO performance, which as been discussed at various times in this Forum

New Philharmonia Orchestra, in other words the EMI commercial recording. Sorry, haven’t seen a discussion of the BPO recording what with being new on the block!

[Barbirollians]

There are three Barbirolli recordings as far as I am aware

The studio New Philharmonia , the live New Philharmonia on Testament made shortly before the recording and then the live BPO recording.

[oliver sudden]

I see that vibratoforever also mentions a 1965 Hallé in post 179 above in a way that makes me wonder whether there might be an off-air recording somewhere!

[LMcD]

It’s a minority opinion here, but I just find it massively turgid. It’s like watching Hannibal attack with lame elephants

Sounds fascinating - I must give it a listen!

[Nick Armstrong]

It’s a minority opinion here, but I just find it massively turgid. It’s like watching Hannibal attack with lame elephants

I’m with you in the minority camp, Richard. I had the EMI recording for about 3 decades, trying and trying to get his way with No 6 (having cut my teeth on his transcendent No 5) but never managed to appreciate it. The CD went to charity in The Big CD Clear-Out of 2014….

.

[CallMePaul]

New Philharmonia Orchestra

For the benefit of any younger members of the forum, when Walter Legge, who founded the Philharmonia in the 1940s, closed the orchestra in the 1960s, the players reformed it as a self-governing orchestra and called it the New Philharmonia Orchestra (initially with Otto Klemperer as Principal conductor). Later it won the right to revert to the Philharmonia name and droped the "New".

[HighlandDougie]

I seem to remember that my Mahler 6th purchases started with Bernstein's 6th (a Christmas present in, I think, maybe 1968?) then Barbirolli and, after a pause, Abbado. The latter seemed like a breath of fresh air after all that angsting. I can't remember whether it's Barbirolli's vocal contributions in the 5th or 6th which I found very distracting - possibly both - but I feel no great desire to listen to either of them again. Apologies to the many JB fans on this forum but "turgid" in the 6th seems about right to me. These days, Kirill Petrenko and the Berlin Philharmonic on the - few - occasions when I feel the desire to listen to the 6th, with the odd airing of Tennstedt. A conductor who, for me, and like Petrenko really understands the essence of this troubling work.

[Barbirollians]

I cut my teeth on Mahler 6 with the studio Barbirolli on Classics for Pleasure in the 1980s so if it was impossibly turgid I knew no better . I found it expressed the dark,trenchant nature of the music superbly . To be honest I probably prefer the live NPO now I know the work much better . For example I treasure a live Chailly at the Proms, but I find Bernstein impossibly fast . A point Richard Osborne made in an Interpretations on Record in the 1980s - if you learned the work from Barbirolli or Bernstein you tend to find the first movement either too fast or too slow in other performances.

[akiralx]

The Sixth is probably my least favourite purely instrumental Mahler symphony, but when I do listen to it I tend to prefer Daniel Harding's Bavarian RSO recording, with the cardiogram on the cover (apparently he was wired up during it).

[vibratoforever]

I see that vibratoforever also mentions a 1965 Hallé in post 179 above in a way that makes me wonder whether there might be an off-air recording somewhere!

The 1965 prom performance made an appearance on Google groups but has so far not made it onto Youtube. However the three live performances 1965, 1966 Berlin and 1967 Prom are very similar and at around 74 minutes are amongst the swiftest you can find, and 10minutes quicker than the studio recording. The 67 Prom has the advantage of the best playing and recording by far and the 4th movement is overwhelming. Not sure if it is still available from Testament but it is on Youtube

[Barbirollians]

Shame the Barbirolli Society has been wound up - the 1965 Halle could have been one for them.