BaL 7.01.23 - Mahler: Symphony no. 6 in A minor

[jayne lee wilson]

I seem to have lost the thread here. What is the question? Also there is more than one live Karajan Sixth available from that site

With the alleged "pasting in" of the 1st movement repeat on the DG studio recording, I wanted one who knows the live 6ths to confirm no sign of any such editing being applied there, that's all. But given my recollected experience of the live 6ths on R3, Karajan seems to have taken it all or most of the time anyway. Sorry, possibly a redundant question from an ailing brain...

[Barbirollians]

I think the recorded sound on the Barborolli is better than that of the live Tennstedt. I just think the latter is too bass heavy with the timps too dominant and reverberant in the RAH acoustic . Fine for a live experience but irritating on repeated listening.

Live or studio Barbirolli ?

[jayne lee wilson]

Fine, but no sign of the set which includes the live recordings of 5, 6 and 7. I think that is what Richard was referring to.

Of course, but no site ever has everything does it. I find the Q-Search easy and reliable on both favoured portals, so I conclude that those later Warners releases have probably not been offered there; not that they are hidden.

But even on Amazon, it isn't always straightforward. Searching for the Poschner 1876 Bruckner 4 CD, it wouldn't appear with any obvious or even inventive composer/performer/work combo, while all the other Poschners did.
But with "Bruckner Capriccio" - there it was.

Too sick and dizzy for more now. Gotta go. Back Soon!

[richardfinegold]

With the alleged "pasting in" of the 1st movement repeat on the DG studio recording, I wanted one who knows the live 6ths to confirm no sign of any such editing being applied there, that's all. But given my recollected experience of the live 6ths on R3, Karajan seems to have taken it all or most of the time anyway. Sorry, possibly a redundant question from an ailing brain...

I am not sure whose brain is the ailing one, yours or mine; my short term memory seems to be waning by the day. However I remember listening to the live Karajan that I when this issue came up before and as far as I can tell, keeping in mind that I cannot read scores, it is there.

[BBMmk2]

I’ve transcribed the first movement for concert band. Not had a performance yet. Received high praise for it as well

[Ein Heldenleben]

Live or studio Barbirolli ?

The NPO Barbs which I think is recorded ( at Watford / Kingsway ? ) I think the sound on it is stunning. The sound in those double basses - amazing .The timps on the Tennstedt recording are over dominant e.g in the transitional phase to the second subject where the brass play an A major chord which then flattens to a minor . The RAH acoustic is too reverberant for me - nothing to do with the eng8neers it’s jus5 the way it is . I prefer Tennstedts performance marginally . The way he brings the second subject before the repeat almost to a halt - it’s so daring. Bottom line aren’t we lucky to have at least three (including Bernstein’s VPO ) recordings which would grace any shelf?
Four as I’m also a fan of Bernstein NYPO.

PS I see the blurb writer on the Warner classics NPO says “ if this is not necessarily a performance to put at the top of anyones lists…”

[Barbirollians]

The NPO Barbs which I think is recorded ( at Watford / Kingsway ? ) I think the sound on it is stunning. The sound in those double basses - amazing .The timps on the Tennstedt recording are over dominant e.g in the transitional phase to the second subject where the brass play an A major chord which then flattens to a minor . The RAH acoustic is too reverberant for me - nothing to do with the eng8neers it’s jus5 the way it is . I prefer Tennstedts performance marginally . The way he brings the second subject before the repeat almost to a halt - it’s so daring. Bottom line aren’t we lucky to have at least three (including Bernstein’s VPO ) recordings which would grace any shelf?
Four as I’m also a fan of Bernstein NYPO.

PS I see the blurb writer on the Warner classics NPO says “ if this is not necessarily a performance to put at the top of anyones lists…”

I assume therefore you mean the studio version. The Proms performance that preceded the recording appeared on Testament in 2009. Barbirolli conducted it in the Andante-Scherzo order in the concert but EMI switched the middle movements round for the studio recording. I love them both but the live recording is noticeably quicker but without losing the impact of the trenchant studio recording.

[Barbirollians]

I assume therefore you mean the studio version. The Proms performance that preceded the recording appeared on Testament in 2009. Barbirolli conducted it in the Andante-Scherzo order in the concert but EMI switched the middle movements round for the studio recording. I love them both but the live recording is noticeably quicker but without losing the impact of the trenchant studio recording.

Just checking the CD boxes the Prom is 75 minutes or so and very similar in timing to his live BPO version from 1966 . The studio recording is about 10 minutes longer in total .

I have not listened to Mahler 6 and indeed this live Barbirolli account for a long time. Been listening this afternoon - it is outstanding and I could not recommend it more highly. Still available from Testament I think at £10.99 much more expensive on Amazon.

[jayne lee wilson]

The NPO Barbs which I think is recorded ( at Watford / Kingsway ? ) I think the sound on it is stunning. The sound in those double basses - amazing .The timps on the Tennstedt recording are over dominant e.g in the transitional phase to the second subject where the brass play an A major chord which then flattens to a minor . The RAH acoustic is too reverberant for me - nothing to do with the eng8neers it’s jus5 the way it is . I prefer Tennstedts performance marginally . The way he brings the second subject before the repeat almost to a halt - it’s so daring. Bottom line aren’t we lucky to have at least three (including Bernstein’s VPO ) recordings which would grace any shelf?
Four as I’m also a fan of Bernstein NYPO.

PS I see the blurb writer on the Warner classics NPO says “ if this is not necessarily a performance to put at the top of anyones lists…”

D'you have the live 1991 RFH Tennstedt? As implied above, on recent spot-checks I found it musically at least the equal of the Proms one, and sonically superior, by some margin...

[Ein Heldenleben]

D'you have the live 1991 RFH Tennstedt? As implied above, on recent spot-checks I found it musically at least the equal of the Proms one, and sonically superior, by some margin...

Good tip, I’ll try and find it on Qobuz. I spent half an hour today trying to track down the Testament Barborolli BPO on the same but with no success. Is the ‘91 live the LPO also. I don’t suppose by some miracle it has the word live in the title this making the search easier ?
I did discover that my Tennstedt LPO boxed Mahler set has two CD 7’s and two CD vol 10’s in it. How on earth did that happen ?

[jayne lee wilson]

Good tip, I’ll try and find it on Qobuz. I spent half an hour today trying to track down the Testament Barborolli BPO on the same but with no success. Is the ‘91 live the LPO also. I don’t suppose by some miracle it has the word live in the title this making the search easier ?
I did discover that my Tennstedt LPO boxed Mahler set has two CD 7’s and two CD vol 10’s in it. How on earth did that happen ?

Yes the 11/91 live RFH 6th is the LPO. Not available on Qobuz.
This set has that live 6th...is this your box? You may already have it...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klaus-Tennstedt-Complete-Mahler-Recordings/dp/B004OGDW4M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1RTGQZQB4VPNU&keywords=tennstedt+mahler+6&qid=1673468066&rnid=1642204031&s=music&sprefix=tennstedt+mahler+6%2Caps%2C83&sr=1-5

***
I've never seen any Testaments on Qobuz. Are they streamable anywhere? I suspect not; (similar philosophy to Hyperion). They do have downloads for sale on their own site, so....

[Gargoyle]

Yes the 11/91 live RFH 6th is the LPO. Not available on Qobuz.
This set has that live 6th...so you may already have it...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klaus-Tennstedt-Complete-Mahler-Recordings/dp/B004OGDW4M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1RTGQZQB4VPNU&keywords=tennstedt+mahler+6&qid=1673468066&rnid=1642204031&s=music&sprefix=tennstedt+mahler+6%2Caps%2C83&sr=1-5

***
I've never seen any Testaments on Qobuz. Are they streamable anywhere? I suspect not; (similar philosophy to Hyperion). They do have downloads for sale on their own site, so....

Unfortunately, Testament don't have downloads for sale on their site and are not streamable - they have an even deeper philosophy than Hyperion! The label seems to be in disarray at the moment, with a lot of their titles unavailable.

[Barbirollians]

Yes the 11/91 live RFH 6th is the LPO. Not available on Qobuz.
This set has that live 6th...is this your box? You may already have it...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klaus-Tennstedt-Complete-Mahler-Recordings/dp/B004OGDW4M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1RTGQZQB4VPNU&keywords=tennstedt+mahler+6&qid=1673468066&rnid=1642204031&s=music&sprefix=tennstedt+mahler+6%2Caps%2C83&sr=1-5

***
I've never seen any Testaments on Qobuz. Are they streamable anywhere? I suspect not; (similar philosophy to Hyperion). They do have downloads for sale on their own site, so....

Sadly , their owner died recently but they still have CDs available on their site even if no downloads .

[vibratoforever]

Just checking the CD boxes the Prom is 75 minutes or so and very similar in timing to his live BPO version from 1966 . The studio recording is about 10 minutes longer in total .

I have not listened to Mahler 6 and indeed this live Barbirolli account for a long time. Been listening this afternoon - it is outstanding and I could not recommend it more highly. Still available from Testament I think at £10.99 much more expensive on Amazon.

Have to agree about the live performance, the last movement is astonishing and the sound very decent. In 1965 Barbirolli conducted this symphony with the Halle at the Proms and it is even faster than the 1967 prom.

[oliver sudden]

Coming in rather late here, but that BPO/Barbirolli Mahler 6 is an extraordinary thing. There is so much that is 'wrong' about it but somehow it is probably the Mahler 6 I listen to the most often. Not just despite the 'wrong' things but in one case because of them: the hammer is metal, which is a flagrant contradiction of Mahler's specification but in a symphony premiered in Essen in 1906 somehow gruesomely appropriate. That's not all it has going for it, of course—I don't know any other recording where the second subject of the first movement and the climax of the Andante surge quite so irresistibly.