BaL 7.01.23 - Mahler: Symphony no. 6 in A minor

[jayne lee wilson]

As it happens. I chanced upon that link while searching for comments about Mackerras omitting the repeat in his recording with the BBCPO, issued on a BBC Music Magazine disc, much discussed here. Who knew that Karajan was such a cheat? That said, I am tempted to have a go at finessing a fake repeat re the Mackerras.

We need someone with access to the live 6th on Yves St.Laurent to tell confirm that the repeated exposition there is (as one surely would expect) "all live..." I recall hearing Karajan repeat the exposition in his Berlin/Salzburg concerts broadcast on Radio 3 in the 70s, because having the repeat meant a lot to me from the start, starting with the Solti and Haitink; most of those earlier recordings did include it. I was always disappointed if it weren't.

As the 5 Against 4 discussion elaborates well though, there could easily have been very practical reasons (time and cost etc) for the first statement to have been used again. Or it could have been a later, posthumous digital edit. "Cheat" (even if tongue-in-cheek) seems a little unfair here...

[Cockney Sparrow]

That is unusual. My Klemperer 7th will never get here.....
....Did you check for details/remastering credits in the Warners Tennstedt Box? I'd love to know if Maestro Okazaki is mentioned...

No mention of Okazaki in the 16 CD complete "Warner" Mahler Box. For the live 4th/7th November 1991 RFH CDs it says producer David Groves, balance enginee Keith Wilson, editor Giles Holland published 1995.

[jayne lee wilson]

No mention of Okazaki in the 16 CD complete "Warner" Mahler Box. For the live 4th/7th November 1991 RFH CDs it says producer David Groves, balance enginee Keith Wilson, editor Giles Holland published 1995.

Thanks little bird. That's a pity - those details are listed in my Toshiba-EMI, but after that comes "Remastering Engineer Yoshio Okazaki", on the inlay too. It became the gold standard for those buying up TOCE-13s and 14s earlier this century, always that bit more realistic, even than Paul Baily's excellent Testament work. I could never find anything out about Okazaki. He also did the Tennstedt live 5th, 7th, and the devastating studio 8th. What a pair of ears....

Later of course, everything went crazy with HQCD, SHMCD, Blu-Spec CD...... all seems rather quaint now. But the HQCDs (like those Toshibas) are always worth having.

[Wolfram]

I'm slightly surprised that there was no comment on Tennstedt's tempo in the slow movement. He takes it very slowly in both his studio and live recordings. So much so you might ask if it is really Andante moderato? To which the answer is, no. But then it's done with such conviction, who cares? The contrast with someone like Kubelik is striking; Kubelik's slow movement is more bucolic idyll, while Tennstedt is darkly introspective. Both interpretations are to be cherished.

[RichardB]

I haven't been able to find the ex-EMI Tennstedt set on Qobuz. Is it really not there or have I just not got around the weird search algorithms in the right way? (Don't worry, I have the CDs anyway)

[jayne lee wilson]

I haven't been able to find the ex-EMI Tennstedt set on Qobuz. Is it really not there or have I just not got around the weird search algorithms in the right way? (Don't worry, I have the CDs anyway)

Qobuz has the EMI Double Fortes of the Mahler 1&2, 3&4, 5 and 8, plus the 4th on Seraphim; the EMI GROC of 4 & 8. Confirmed via Audirvana+/Qobuz, where the search works smoothly and efficiently. But I never have any problem with it onsite at Qobuz either.

[Bryn]

Qobuz has the EMI Double Fortes of the Mahler 1&2, 3&4, 5 and 8, plus the 4th on Seraphim; the EMI GROC of 4 & 8. Confirmed via Audirvana+/Qobuz, where the search works smoothly and efficiently. But I never have any problem with it onsite at Qobuz either.

Fine, but no sign of the set which includes the live recordings of 5, 6 and 7. I think that is what Richard was referring to.

[RichardB]

Fine, but no sign of the set which includes the live recordings of 5, 6 and 7. I think that is what Richard was referring to.

Indeed, of course I found all those which Jayne mentions without any trouble. Searching on Qobuz is often complicated by albums not being tagged with all the names that ought to be there.

[ChandlersFord]

I didn't listen to this, as Seckerson is SO predictable.

Barbirolli's 1967 NPO performance doesn't seem to be at all highly rated, possibly because most of its original reviewers had been at the Proms performance that precede the recording. It knocked them out, apparently, so expectations may have been unreasonably high. I've always rated it very highly, nevertheless.

[richardfinegold]

We need someone with access to the live 6th on Yves St.Laurent to tell confirm that the repeated exposition there is (as one surely would expect) "all live..." I recall hearing Karajan repeat the exposition in his Berlin/Salzburg concerts broadcast on Radio 3 in the 70s, because having the repeat meant a lot to me from the start, starting with the Solti and Haitink; most of those earlier recordings did include it. I was always disappointed if it weren't.

As the 5 Against 4 discussion elaborates well though, there could easily have been very practical reasons (time and cost etc) for the first statement to have been used again. Or it could have been a later, posthumous digital edit. "Cheat" (even if tongue-in-cheek) seems a little unfair here...

I seem to have lost the thread here. What is the question? Also there is more than one live Karajan Sixth available from that site

[Mal]

I didn't listen to this, as Seckerson is SO predictable.

Barbirolli's 1967 NPO performance doesn't seem to be at all highly rated, possibly because most of its original reviewers had been at the Proms performance that precede the recording. It knocked them out, apparently, so expectations may have been unreasonably high. I've always rated it very highly, nevertheless.

Barbirolli/NPO was discussed at some length in the programme, in a generally positive way, and with good clips. Enough for me to give it a "must listen" asterisk.

[gradus]

Barbirolli/NPO was discussed at some length in the programme, in a generally positive way, and with good clips. Enough for me to give it a "must listen" asterisk.

The Barbirolli 9th with the BPO is also well worth a listen being quite celebrated when originally issued.

[Barbirollians]

The 1967 NPO Barbirolli was the last to be eliminated before the top two on grounds it was too slow. The Prom performance is now available on Testament. I think IRR raved about it but in the Inverne years Gramophone did not bother to review it.

[ucanseetheend]

I didn't listen to this, as Seckerson is SO predictable.

Barbirolli's 1967 NPO performance doesn't seem to be at all highly rated, possibly because most of its original reviewers had been at the Proms performance that precede the recording. It knocked them out, apparently, so expectations may have been unreasonably high. I've always rated it very highly, nevertheless.

Predictably Interesting. The best reviewer of Symphonic repertoire out there .

[Ein Heldenleben]

The 1967 NPO Barbirolli was the last to be eliminated before the top two on grounds it was too slow. The Prom performance is now available on Testament. I think IRR raved about it but in the Inverne years Gramophone did not bother to review it.

I think the recorded sound on the Barborolli is better than that of the live Tennstedt. I just think the latter is too bass heavy with the timps too dominant and reverberant in the RAH acoustic . Fine for a live experience but irritating on repeated listening.