BaL 7.01.23 - Mahler: Symphony no. 6 in A minor

[silvestrione]

I have recently tried hard again to get to like this work, but I still cannot 'take' the last movement (though of course, as it is Mahler, there are wonderful things in it, including the slow introduction). For me it is melodrama tending to bombast, heart-on-sleeve thrust-in-your-face, too long, repetitive and too loud, etc, and the Klaus Tennstedt/Ed Seckersen approach is exactly what turns me off! 'The jaws of hell', and other such descriptive cliches sprinkled through the programme... (Isn't the amount of f, ff, and fff, wearing? I'm reminded of my organ teacher saying, you must only occasionally go above mf on a full-scale church organ, never for extended periods, as it's wearing on the listener...)

The ones he labelled just 'impressive' work better for me, Karajan, Rattle, Abbado...and the Currentzis certainly attracted me.

[ucanseetheend]

Care to tell us about them, then?

one that was mentioned in the Seckerson review

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/mahler-sixth-from-gulag-currentzis/

and this which is one of my favourites

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209207

[richardfinegold]

one that was mentioned in the Seckerson review

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/mahler-sixth-from-gulag-currentzis/

and this which is one of my favourites


https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%209207

The Hurwitz review that accompanies the first link isn’t much of a rave

[RichardB]

The Hurwitz review that accompanies the first link isn’t much of a rave

I didn't like it much either. Hang on, that means I agree with Hurwitz.



I'm just taking my revolver into the study to clean it. I won't be long.

[visualnickmos]

I have recently tried hard again to get to like this work, but I still cannot 'take' the last movement (though of course, as it is Mahler, there are wonderful things in it, including the slow introduction). For me it is melodrama tending to bombast, heart-on-sleeve thrust-in-your-face, too long, repetitive and too loud, etc, and the Klaus Tennstedt/Ed Seckersen approach is exactly what turns me off! 'The jaws of hell', and other such descriptive cliches sprinkled through the programme... (Isn't the amount of f, ff, and fff, wearing? I'm reminded of my organ teacher saying, you must only occasionally go above mf on a full-scale church organ, never for extended periods, as it's wearing on the listener...)

The ones he labelled just 'impressive' work better for me, Karajan, Rattle, Abbado...and the Currentzis certainly attracted me.

I agree, although I was attracted by the Barbirolli. The Currentzis, I wouldn't even use as a beer mat. Just sounded 'ugly'

[Barbirollians]

I agree, although I was attracted by the Barbirolli. The Currentzis, I wouldn't even use as a beer mat. Just sounded 'ugly'

The Barbirolli is imprinted on me as I got to know the work from the Classics for Pleasure reissue . Ought to be heard at least once.

[BBMmk2]

Not hearing this review, but I’m surprised because especially at the opening of the first movement, the tempo seems a bit on the slow side.

[Bryn]

As it happens. I chanced upon that link while searching for comments about Mackerras omitting the repeat in his recording with the BBCPO, issued on a BBC Music Magazine disc, much discussed here. Who knew that Karajan was such a cheat? That said, I am tempted to have a go at finessing a fake repeat re the Mackerras.

Posted by Brian Hadfield today on Facebook:

The exposition repeat was actually observed in Sir Charles’s original performance, but it was omitted by the tape editor, of all things, in order to fit the work on to their single disc! The sleeve note actually claimed Barbirolli’s precedent for leaving it out! whereas he did it by choice, whereas Mackerras didn’t!

Can anyone here confirm or deny the veracity of this?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Posted by Brian Hadfield today on Facebook:



Can anyone here confirm or deny the veracity of this?

I wouldn’t want to be the tape editor who cut out Charles Mackerras’s repeat. If it happened it would perhaps have been the producer’s decision - presumably after explaining to CM the commercial realities.

[LHC]

I wouldn’t want to be the tape editor who cut out Charles Mackerras’s repeat. If it happened it would perhaps have been the producer’s decision - presumably after explaining to CM the commercial realities.

As it was BBCMM cover disc rather than a commercial release, I suspect the approval process would have been very different to that for a commercial recording. Indeed, as this would have been a BBC recording for which the BBC presumably owns the rights, would he even have been consulted on the decision to squeeze into onto a single disc?

[Ein Heldenleben]

As it was BBCMM cover disc rather than a commercial release, I suspect the approval process would have been very different to that for a commercial recording. Indeed, as this would have been a BBC recording for which the BBC presumably owns the rights, would he even have been consulted on the decision to squeeze into onto a single disc?

Depends on the contract but I understand usually conductors do have rights over the final edit written into the contract. The idea is to avoid all this by working out that a Mahler 6 with a first movement repeat is unlikely to fit on a single disc ! It’s not rocket science . Even with no repeat its a tight squeeze.

[Lordgeous]

The issue I have is the extraordinary Toshiba-EMI remaster of the live 6th from 11/1991, which sounds far more vivid and immediate than the Proms recording. Easily preferable, if not strictly a fair comparison between the naked truth of the fearfully atmospheric Toshiba RFH and the Qobuz 16/44.1 of the Proms.
Probably the best way of hearing the Tennstedt 6th....Still available at HMV Japan (TOCE 13561) -

https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Mahler-1860-1911_000000000019272/item_Mahler-Symphony-No-6-%60tragische%60_1513595

You might be lucky, and the one in the box may be the same (2005) remaster. Hopefully transferred with faith. Look for (the legendary) "Yoshio Okazaki" as the engineer.
Confusingly, the same cover art has been used for the 1983 studio 6th, as on the current Warners HQCD . Watch out for that, but the dates are usually discernible on the inlay (if you can view it).
But ordering from Tokyo may not be the fun it once was; the SACD of the sui generis Klemperer 7th has still not arrived here, ordered weeks ago and tracked as "in transit"..... and....."items ready"....

They used to jet across in less than a week back in the days of innocence....bliss was it in that dawn, etc....

Mmm... The Japanese website isn't accepting orders "No orders can be placed at this time"!

[Goon525]

Depends on the contract but I understand usually conductors do have rights over the final edit written into the contract. The idea is to avoid all this by working out that a Mahler 6 with a first movement repeat is unlikely to fit on a single disc ! It’s not rocket science . Even with no repeat its a tight squeeze.

Different now, of course, as max CD playing time has increased from 79 minutes to about 88. Plenty of recent examples of this.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Different now, of course, as max CD playing time has increased from 79 minutes to about 88. Plenty of recent examples of this.

Yes I wish they’d tell the record companies . One of the CDS featured on Record Review this Sat has 42 minutes of music on it .

[jayne lee wilson]

Mmm... The Japanese website isn't accepting orders "No orders can be placed at this time"!

That is unusual. My Klemperer 7th will never get here.....
....Did you check for details/remastering credits in the Warners Tennstedt Box? I'd love to know if Maestro Okazaki is mentioned...