BaL 24.12.22 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 9 in D minor

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  • Wolfram
    Full Member
    • Jul 2019
    • 280

    Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
    At the risk of incurring the wrath of TS dislikers I am very much enjoying the intelligence of this discussion .

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    • HighlandDougie
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 3108

      7 Digital (which offers many BPO own-label recordings at low prices, including the Petrenko Mahler 6th) has the Beethoven 9th in 24/96 format for £5.95 at:

      Preview, buy and download high-quality music downloads of Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 by Berliner Philharmoniker, Kirill Petrenko, Kwangchul Youn, Benjamin Bruns, Elisabeth Kulman, Marlis Petersen and Rundfunkchor Berlin from 7digital United Kingdom - We have over 30 million high quality tracks in our store.

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      • Barbirollians
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11791

        Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
        I played the Fricsay recording the other day and was bowled over again. Tom Service could do much worse than choose this one as the 'winner'. The BPO playing is glorious; just listen to the delightful interplay between the woodwind, especially in the second movement. The 1957 DG sound could have been recorded yesterday. Everything is beautifully 'placed', timpani and aforementioned woodwind (nice bassoon) fine as any other version I know and the Turkish percussion in the last movement catches the ear better than most.

        There's a fine team of soloists and excellent choral work too. It also has the excitement of a live performance (which it isn't).

        If it doesn't 'win' then it certainly deserves to be heard. Of all the LVB 9s I have this one really is an 'Ode to Joy' and I'd be happy to take it as my recommended version.
        Yes it’s very good - unlike his Eroica which is a right dirge .

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        • Goon525
          Full Member
          • Feb 2014
          • 606

          Don’t know if I’m the only one here with a Digital Concert Hall subscription, but the Petrenko performance is available to watch and listen.
          We did seem to spend a lot of time with Furtwangler, who surely - with ancient sound in any of his many versions - could not be a library choice. Would have been very interesting had this been Interpretations on Record, but it wasn’t.

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          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11791

            Another very small field and frankly I was not inspired by the winner and hasn’t the 1942 Furtwangler been described elsewhere as hysterical ?

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            • Ein Heldenleben
              Full Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 6994

              Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
              Another very small field and frankly I was not inspired by the winner and hasn’t the 1942 Furtwangler been described elsewhere as hysterical ?
              I find that shrill Furtwangler finale almost unlistenable to . It’s almost anti-music. If it’s the same perf that was filmed with Goebbels in the audience it’s a question of thanks but no thanks.

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              • Master Jacques
                Full Member
                • Feb 2012
                • 1977

                Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                I find that shrill Furtwangler finale almost unlistenable to . It’s almost anti-music.
                It is most bizarre, sounding as if the chorus is being firmly pushed out into the street as the band gets more and more frantic. Whatever the political complications, as music-making goes it's a no-no.

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                • Bryn
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 24688

                  Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
                  Don’t know if I’m the only one here with a Digital Concert Hall subscription, but the Petrenko performance is available to watch and listen.
                  We did seem to spend a lot of time with Furtwangler, who surely - with ancient sound in any of his many versions - could not be a library choice. Would have been very interesting had this been Interpretations on Record, but it wasn’t.
                  And, unless I missed it, no mention of Toscanini.

                  Comment

                  • Ein Heldenleben
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 6994

                    Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
                    It is most bizarre, sounding as if the chorus is being firmly pushed out into the street as the band gets more and more frantic. Whatever the political complications, as music-making goes it's a no-no.
                    Exactly. Was it a subtle from of protest or did they think it would appeal more to the despicable front row ? There’s a Mengleberg wartime Beethoven 5 which has the same hard driven feel.

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                    • Wolfram
                      Full Member
                      • Jul 2019
                      • 280

                      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                      And, unless I missed it, no mention of Toscanini.
                      No, nor Klemperer.

                      His thesis seemed to be ‘Beethoven’s 9th symphony as a indicator of socio-political change in the 20th and 21st centuries’. Which actually was very interesting, but it did seem to hinder his ability somewhat to present a wider range of interpretations and approaches. In addition to Klemperer and Toscanini, the absence of versions from people such as Mackerras and more recent ones from the likes of Jarvi and Honeck was to be regretted.

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                      • visualnickmos
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 3615

                        Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                        At the risk of incurring the wrath of TS dislikers I am very much enjoying the intelligence of this discussion .
                        That's as may be, but it's far removed from the notion of BaL, making it one of the worst BaLs I can recall.

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                        • Wolfram
                          Full Member
                          • Jul 2019
                          • 280

                          Originally posted by visualnickmos View Post
                          That's as may be, but it's far removed from the notion of BaL, making it one of the worst BaLs I can recall.
                          I’m understand that. But isn’t intelligent discussion and insight of the sort that we got this morning better than the usual “this one’s a bit slower, this one’s a bit quicker” glibness that we tend to get these days from these twofers?

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                          • Wolfram
                            Full Member
                            • Jul 2019
                            • 280

                            Just one question. If period performances are now all different: Norrington is diffferent from Gardiner who in turn is different from Savall. Which one is authentic?

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                            • Master Jacques
                              Full Member
                              • Feb 2012
                              • 1977

                              Originally posted by Wolfram View Post
                              I’m understand that. But isn’t intelligent discussion and insight of the sort that we got this morning better than the usual “this one’s a bit slower, this one’s a bit quicker” glibness that we tend to get these days from these twofers?
                              I'm sure you're right, that this was a more ambitious, politically themed meta-survey than the usual dire BaL twofers. Credit for that. But I'm not sure about the quality of the "insights", which seemed to me verbal rhapsodies rather than analytically-argued perceptions drawn from what we were hearing. Why not (for example) go into how differing speeds of the Turkish March change what the music conveys, socio-politically? Such things do matter.

                              Rather it seemed to me - and I'm a TS admirer - to be one of those cases where he was opening his mouth before getting his brain in gear.

                              Comment

                              • Bryn
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 24688

                                Originally posted by Wolfram View Post
                                Just one question. If period performances are now all different: Norrington is diffferent from Gardiner who in turn is different from Savall. Which one is authentic?
                                Well, as Norrinton has since admitted, he misjudged the 'Turkish music' section, so that, I guess, would rule that LCP recording out as either period or authentic (two quite different considerations, by the way). His later recording with the Stuttgarters (mainly modern instruments but with more 'period' ones where the modern does were just too far from the characteristics of what the music was composed to be played on, I would regard, therefore, as more 'authentic'. There are "different" roads to authenticity.

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