BaL 24.12.22 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 9 in D minor

[Bryn]

The latest Beethoven Symphony set that I acquired, a few months ago, was Steinberg/Pittsburgh. I finally got around to playing the Ninth Symphony yesterday, inspired by this thread. It may be jewel of this set, and , although I am not going to make any claims that this revelatory or essential listening, it’s worth a listen. Tempos are fast-ish with enough rubato to deflect a claim of being robotic, with a well matched quartet at the finale

Hmm. That Steinberg, IIRC, is not strictly just Beethoven. Did not Steinberg incorporate at least some of Maher's revisions to the scoring?

[jayne lee wilson]

Hi, Jayne, I didn't want to leave your question unanswered, but I think we're starting to split hairs here over what 'struggle' means in this context. I was thinking of the various alternative versions of his symphonies, particularly in the 'finale problem' of the 3rd 4th and 5th. Georg Tintner was illuminating on this aspect of Bruckner in his writings and talks.

But the 5th is his greatest, most perfect achievement, and the finale very different in its double-fugue form from all of his others....(although the autograph shows some revisions from 1876-8, he never revised it after this; it was definitive in 1878, and he knew it.).

The only problem it ever had was Schalk's appalling butchery of it, still to be heard, if you wish to torment your ears and your Brucknerian heart, in Knappertsbusch' recording...
(No Brucknerian will want to submit to this more than...twice; in a state of appalled fascination...

I know what you mean by struggle, of course.
I guess I see the Bruckner 2-4, after the stunning "I am here!" self-contained achievement of the 1st, as Bruckner in the symphonic laboratory, in the process of creating a new kind of symphony, but of course with all the roots and references back as aforementioned (as I said, to much earlier traditions beyond his Classical predecessors)

The 5th is the glorious, triumphant culmination of that phase, so supremely confident in its scale, its formal daring, its closely-integrated cyclic form, with an extraordinarily deep thematic cross-reference. There's almost something perfectly Apollonian in the fact that he never heard it; never played in his lifetime.
Then the black comedy of the Schalk Edition, based on truly profound misunderstanding (this happened to the 3rd as well, the most damaged by the revisions) .

[Pulcinella]

I note that several versions on my shelf were acquired via complete-set boxes: Karajan, Bernstein, Toscanini, Masur, Konwitschny (soft spot for this one). A few are live - Furtwängler/Bayreuth, Maag/Padua (Gramophone cover disc), Herreweghe (1999), Klemperer (Cologne 1958).

... not to forget the brilliant Cyprien Katsaris in Liszt's piano transcription - 1989 Teldec.

Just dug that out and misread the Athestis Chorus as the Atheists Chorus.


Must admit to being one of those who don't like the choral movement: if I wanted to listen to it I might put on Tippett 3 instead, but I find that hard to take too!

[Bryn]

Just dug that out and misread the Athestis Chorus as the Atheists Chorus.


Must admit to being one of those who don't like the choral movement: if I wanted to listen to it I might put on Tippett 3 instead, but I find that hard to take too!

In which case, if opting for a piano reduction, you had better not go for that prepared by Wagner, replete with vocals.

[Master Jacques]

Must admit to being one of those who don't like the choral movement: if I wanted to listen to it I might put on Tippett 3 instead, but I find that hard to take too!

Fair enough! Coming back to it after a gap of decades - it was my least favoured of the four, too - I felt daft not to have seen how cogently memorable the symphony's vocal finale was earlier. Mind you, the performance I collared (Barstow, Leppard, BBCSO on BBC Radio Classics CD) is as good as I've heard, particularly in its mirror-evocation-dialectic with the Beethoven. I went back to LvB 9 with renewed sympathy for what that composer was trying to do, largely thanks to the Tippett.

[Pulcinella]

Fair enough! Coming back to it after a gap of decades - it was my least favoured of the four, too - I felt daft not to have seen how cogently memorable the symphony's vocal finale was earlier. Mind you, the performance I collared (Barstow, Leppard, BBCSO on BBC Radio Classics CD) is as good as I've heard, particularly in its mirror-evocation-dialectic with the Beethoven. I went back to LvB 9 with renewed sympathy for what that composer was trying to do, largely thanks to the Tippett.

That's my favoured Tippett 3 too, and I recommended it on another thread, where it was of interest to RichardB: I don't know if he ever got a copy.

[Master Jacques]

That's my favoured Tippett 3 too, and I recommended it on another thread, where it was of interest to RichardB: I don't know if he ever got a copy.

I have the feeling that I tracked the Barstow/Leppard corker down after reading your recommendation, so thank you (as ever!)

[Pulcinella]

I have the feeling that I tracked the Barstow/Leppard corker down after reading your recommendation, so thank you (as ever!)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hmm. That Steinberg, IIRC, is not strictly just Beethoven. Did not Steinberg incorporate at least some of Maher's revisions to the scoring?

Surely that applies to many Beethoven symphony performances - edited to remove perceived compromises by the composer, particularly with regard to the limited ranges of instruments of the early 19th century, though not to extent of Mahler's expansion of instrumentation.

[richardfinegold]

A very fine performance indeed, with some very classy soloists. I have a Japanese MQA CD version which almost sounds as if it were recorded last week.

As to Klemperer recording it for Vox in Vienna, I suspect that there may be some confusion with the Jascha Horenstein version (released on a single Vox LP of which I have a copy). By coincidence, this is slated for release in January by Presto:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...RoC-TgQAvD_BwE


.



No mention of a Klemperer 9th, either for Vox or live.

I had remembered the conductor as being Horenstein, and was startled when I saw the album cover again after many years 9as related upthread) and OK was listed as the Conductor. unless the error lay with the American division of Vox...

[cloughie]

Hmm. That Steinberg, IIRC, is not strictly just Beethoven. Did not Steinberg incorporate at least some of Maher's revisions to the scoring?

There are tinkerers all around - I think I remember Stokowski being criticised in Gramophone and other reviews for tampering with the orchestration!

[Bryn]

I had remembered the conductor as being Horenstein, and was startled when I saw the album cover again after many years 9as related upthread) and OK was listed as the Conductor. unless the error lay with the American division of Vox...

[Barbirollians]

Fair enough! Coming back to it after a gap of decades - it was my least favoured of the four, too - I felt daft not to have seen how cogently memorable the symphony's vocal finale was earlier. Mind you, the performance I collared (Barstow, Leppard, BBCSO on BBC Radio Classics CD) is as good as I've heard, particularly in its mirror-evocation-dialectic with the Beethoven. I went back to LvB 9 with renewed sympathy for what that composer was trying to do, largely thanks to the Tippett.

Leppard made a very good Beethoven 9 on the Tring label with the RPO .

[smittims]

Does anyone recall that curious TV concert 'A Fanfare for Europe' in the 1970s, which featured the opening of the finale of the Ninth, morphing into the finale of the Tippett Third at the second entry of the 'Schreckenfanfare' (i.e. just before the voices would enter in the Beethoven)?

The concert was notable for me as the first time I heard Hugo Wolf, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf singing 'Kennst du das Land' in an orchestral version.

[gurnemanz]

I greatly enjoy Douglas Boyd's version with Manchester Camerata (I also like their Fifth). Somewhat neglected, I feel, and not on the list, though very much available:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...-op-125-choral. Lean and lucid (+ Roderick Williams as a soloist).