BaL 8.10.22 - Bach: St Matthew Passion

[Darloboy]

No objection to the winner; it’s my own personal favourite. But - am I right in thinking that no modern instrument versions were considered? And surprising that there was no mention of Butt’s universally praised OVPP version, given the time that was spent on McCreesh.

[Mal]

Bach Collegium Japan, Masaaki Suzuki wins.

In BAL 2014 Suzuki was highly applauded but just missed the top spot through being perceived as being slightly understated, in parts, with a slighty reserved evangelist. (I didn't hear this from the clips played, and preferred Suzuki overall.) Of course, in 2014, that must have been the 1999 recording, and in this programme it's the 2020 recording, which seemed equally on form to me. Carolyn Sampson was wonderful in her extract.

[Poppydhb]

Given that new recordings basically come up with the rations nowadays, I’m happy to listen to the variety of relatively new versions I come across on R3.

I still play my Klemperer set and in fact got to know it from an original 9-side pressing, complete with booklet on impressively thick paper and with heavily retouched pictures of the soloists. So my attachment is not purely musical!

Nonetheless, it holds a special place for me, and I cope with the slow tempi - I find the opening chorus sets me up for that.

I wouldn’t want to be stuck with one version, for sure. And if I were Bach, I’d probably have done it with a boy’s chorus and single adult soloists, from a practical viewpoint. I suspect some of the versions we treasure were done the way they turned out and the booklet written to justify practical issues.

[Mal]

No objection to the winner; it’s my own personal favourite. But - am I right in thinking that no modern instrument versions were considered? And surprising that there was no mention of Butt’s universally praised OVPP version, given the time that was spent on McCreesh.

Also, Butt was chosen in 2014's BAL, and considered at great length. So surely a comment as to why he wasn't considered here should be made. Andrew should have asked the reviewer why Butt wasn't in the running this time.

[smittims]

Good to hear someone speak up for the Klemperer, and the old Columbias too. In those days records were expensive in real terms, 38s. about £45 (per disc) in today's values, but as you say, you got a lovely big book: a quality product.

[Mal]

Given that new recordings basically come up with the rations nowadays, I’m happy to listen to the variety of relatively new versions I come across on R3.

I still play my Klemperer set and in fact got to know it from an original 9-side pressing, complete with booklet on impressively thick paper and with heavily retouched pictures of the soloists. So my attachment is not purely musical!

Nonetheless, it holds a special place for me, and I cope with the slow tempi - I find the opening chorus sets me up for that.

I wouldn’t want to be stuck with one version, for sure. And if I were Bach, I’d probably have done it with a boy’s chorus and single adult soloists, from a practical viewpoint. I suspect some of the versions we treasure were done the way they turned out and the booklet written to justify practical issues.

A large choir can be quite awe inspiring, and don't we want to generate awe in works like this? And the boy's chorus adds piquancy. But a large choir, as said in the programme, and the King's clip illustrated, can tend to drown out the instruments. Room for many different approaches?

[Poppydhb]

If we take new versions as they come, we’ll get many different approaches, albeit in waves of fashion …

[Poppydhb]

Oh, they really need to get back to a properly researched BaL with a single presenter who doesn’t waste time arguing the toss, but records the narrative thoughtfully and cogently so they can have a tea-break on the show and we get a better review for the archives.

[RichardB]

Suzuki is a fine Bach performer of course.

Yesterday I listened to the McCreesh recording all through. I find the opening chorus much too fast for my liking. Maybe I could get used to it, since it's clear why he thinks that's the right tempo and if it were a work I didn't already know I might just accept it. But I don't find the voices well enough matched in the ensemble singing, they all seem too "soloistic" in approach. This is where Kuijken scores over the other OVPP recordings as far as I'm concerned.

A large choir can be quite awe inspiring

So can a string quartet!

[Joseph K]

Kuijken arrived today, though still haven't listened to all of the Butt. But I will report back on both soon-ish.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Good to hear someone speak up for the Klemperer, and the old Columbias too. In those days records were expensive in real terms, 38s. about £45 (per disc) in today's values, but as you say, you got a lovely big book: a quality product.

Clearly Klemperer/Munchinger/Richter weren't going to get a look-in from this reviewer. It was exclusively for those in the current fashion-slot.

[smittims]

Ah, tell it not in Gath!

It's not well-known that the Klemperer recording was made under some difficulties. Walter Legge wanted to do it in Hampstead Parish Church, which was damp, and there was trouble with the organ. Until Kingsway Hall was available they decamped to Studio One at Abbey Road, a very different acoustic! Klemperer had insisted on conducting the recitatives, which Legge re-recorded without his agreement. But all ended well.

[Mal]

So can a string quartet! [be awe inspiring]

Yes, but perhaps for different reasons. A mountain can be awe inspiring due to its sheer size, and a cheetah can be awe inspiring through speed & grace. So Richter's Bach choir might be the mountain, Butt's the cheetah. Why not have both? Bach the mountain, and Bach the cheetah?

[RichardB]

Over to Mr Blake:

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour

You're right of course; but for me Bruckner, not Bach, is mountainous music.

[Lordgeous]

Ah, tell it not in Gath!

It's not well-known that the Klemperer recording was made under some difficulties. Walter Legge wanted to do it in Hampstead Parish Church, which was damp, and there was trouble with the organ. Until Kingsway Hall was available they decamped to Studio One at Abbey Road, a very different acoustic! Klemperer had insisted on conducting the recitatives, which Legge re-recorded without his agreement. But all ended well.

Klemperer also didn't like George Malcolm's continuo decorations: "Not to jzoke with Bach" was his famous comment!