BaL 8.10.22 - Bach: St Matthew Passion

[Joseph K]

I like the Dunedin Consort with John Butt. Mine was stolen though and I never replaced it - last time I looked it was discontinued, too.

edit - it appears to be back in production https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-S-Bach-Ma...r%2C137&sr=1-6

[Pulcinella]

The best one is the Presto website, but it's riddled with duplications and missing information.

I can vouch for that when I've tried to compile the occasional one to help out or for a Summer BaL!
Still a tremendous resource though.

[Pulcinella]

JEG (Archiv, with London Oratory) and Leonhardt here.
I marginally prefer the John, partly for its concision (the Matthew can be an endurance test), but there are certainly some achingly beautiful arias in the Matthew, and the opening chorus is beyond compare.
IMHO, of course.

[silvestrione]

JEG (Archiv, with London Oratory) and Leonhardt here.
I marginally prefer the John, partly for its concision (the Matthew can be an endurance test), but there are certainly some achingly beautiful arias in the Matthew, and the opening chorus is beyond compare.
IMHO, of course.

Yes JEG Archiv for me too.

I'm the other way round; can't quite get on with the St John. The Matthew is just an extraordinary drama, beautifully shaped, with various characters, including instrumental ones articulating where we have got to, and the culmination takes you somewhere no other work does, for me.

[MickyD]

I still like the older Harnoncourt set - Paul Esswood was such a fine singer. I also have the excellent Leonhardt, but his choice of René Jacobs is something of an acquired taste, I find.

[RichardB]

Being a convinced follower of OVPP, my choices are quite limited. I liked the Dunedin Consort when it came out but I think Kuijken has superseded it. I haven't heard McCreesh but I haven't been much attracted to his work in general. The first Harnoncourt recording is close to my heart, especially Max van Egmond's "Mache dich, mein Herze, rein", but the later Harnoncourt and the Gardiner I recall also being very fine.

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=Eine Alpensinfonie;894766]The best one is the Presto website, but it's riddled with duplications and missing information.[/

Arkiv Musik? Even if the accuracy is a bit off people can add their own. Or Wikipedia? I get Carpal Tunnel symptoms just looking at the work you do.

[Joseph K]

I liked the Dunedin Consort when it came out but I think Kuijken has superseded it.

How so? Just curious...

[ostuni]

That first Harnoncourt recording was a revelation to me when it first came out: I remember it being broadcast complete some time in the early 70s - shortly after that, I bought my first baroque flute, and by the end of the decade, I was playing in period-instrument performances of both Bach Passions (and am fortunate to be still doing so!)

Economic considerations mean that, over those years, I've played rather more John Passions than Matthews. I love them both dearly but, having first performed the Matthew, as a boy treble in the late 60s, it has a very special place in my heart.

I've come to this thread after contributing a post on the Gurrelieder thread, about hearing Ed Gardner's concert last weekend. In a funny coincidence, the first performance of the Matthew Passion that I played in after relocating to Gloucestershire in the late 1990s had a young Ed Gardner (then a choral scholar at King's Cambridge) singing the tenor solos…

[RichardB]

How so? Just curious...

Without going into details for which I'd need to listen to both again, which I haven't done for a while: better singing and better playing! One thing I've just remember about the Dunedin recording is that some of the singers don't sound as if they can actually speak German.

[Joseph K]

Without going into details for which I'd need to listen to both again, which I haven't done for a while: better singing and better playing! One thing I've just remember about the Dunedin recording is that some of the singers don't sound as if they can actually speak German.

Well, I ordered the Dunedin upon discovering it was back in production, and yesterday squandered more dosh on the Kuijken. So I can find out for myself.

[RichardB]

Well, I ordered the Dunedin upon discovering it was back in production, and yesterday squandered more dosh on the Kuijken. So I can find out for myself.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts! John Butt's liner note for the Dunedin recording (which I've just been rereading) is excellent in itself. He leaves aside the evidence amassed by Rifkin and others as to what Bach actually did, and makes a convincing case for the music having a greater expressive impact when performed with eight solo voices than with soloists and choir. When I first heard his recording I came to the same conclusion. "Trying to follow Bach’s vocal scoring and the instrumentation of his last performance is not done in the name of a sort of pious literalism that condemns every other approach to the realm of inauthenticity. It is rather an attempt to explore the possibilities for creative expression within a particular set of historical parameters (which can thereby become opportunities)." I've just listened to the opening chorus of both versions to refresh my memory. The Dunedin Consort's is a relatively dry recording, which emphasises the (attractively) more "raw" quality of the playing and singing, and (less attractively) the heterogeneity of the vocal ensemble, which to me doesn't sound like an ensemble that has sung together every week for years as Bach's would have done. On the other hand, Kuijken's recording has a much more refined sound (possibly as a result less strictly accurate in historical terms!) but, crucially, his vocal ensemble has much more coherence. I don't think there's any harm in having both!

[Bryn]

I note that Presto Classical currently have very competitive prices for both the Kuijken SACDs and Butt CDs.

[Joseph K]

I don't think there's any harm in having both!

That's good to know. I shall report back.

[jonfan]

The Munchinger was a revelation when it came out in the mid 60s with beautiful presentation from Decca. The speeds seem slow by today’s standards but the competition then was Klemperer when one needed a calendar to time it.
My benchmark today is Suzuki’s latest.