BaL 24.09.22 - Strauss, J II: Die Fledermaus

[Mal]

The Clemens Krauss remains my favourite though I have a soft spot for the Previn.

I thought Kiri de Kanawa, Richard Leech, Olaf Bar and Fassbaender were the standout singers in the review, certainly the most beautiful. And they are all in Previn's set! Penguin make it their top choice, and don't make the caveats about Previn being "a bit flat", or not Viennese enough, that some critics make. I wasn't taken by the clips from Krauss at all - old mono not sounding great and, as the reviewer said, the sporano sounding like a bleating sheep. I didn't get the feeling that the singing was "in a hanger" in Previn's set,... a big house in Vienna perhaps! Also I wasn't put off at all by the "dog and duck" noises. I think my next step will be to listen to Previn, probably the highlights disk on Spotify, as I fancy avoidng the dreaded dialogue on a first run through. (But do they capture all the highlights?...)

[Master Jacques]

I love instrumental music & Powell and Pressburger - Black Narcissus and the Red Shoes are two of my favourite films. But I'm not an opera lover, although (of course) loving much of the music. Does the film contain the best music from the opera? Is the orchestra anywhere near Kleiber's & Karajan's? The music in the film is played by the Vienna Symphony Orchestra under conductor Alois Melichar. Was the orchestra and conductor P&P's first choice? Would Herrs Kleiber and Karajan, and BPO/VPO, consider films, even P&P, to be slumming it? Interesting that P&P went for an Austrian orchestra, were the British orchestras & conductors a bit put out at not getting the call?

Oh ... Rosalinda! is not a film for opera-lovers, though it is a film for those who like Johann Strauss's music. As I say, several numbers are missing - notably the Czardas - but what's there is stylishly played by the echt Viennese orchestra, with a conductor who has the style down to a nicety. As for the singing ... with the exception of Redgrave doing it very badly for himself as Eisenstein, and Quayle doing an amusingly grandiloquent Russian job on Orlofsky, most of the other actors have excellent singers - the likes of Walter Berry and Alexander Young - dubbing the roles. Rothenberger's English is very good, in her famous rendition of Adele's waltz song.

You'll either love this film or loathe it, and I should think you'll know which after about ten minutes! As the third and last panel of P&P's 'theatre trilogy', I think it makes a lovely, sweet and citric dessert to follow The Tales of Hoffmann and The Red Shoes.

[Barbirollians]

All my three versions - Krauss, stereo Karajan and Previn did well I was pleased to hear. Krauss may be mono but it is good mono and unsurpassed as a performance. The very cheap Regis reissue of a few years ago was filled up with various beautifully sung Viennese operetta favourites.

[Mal]

"Oh ... Rosalinda!" achives an "all rotten" rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and the reviews don't inspire much hope. I'm not chancing my hard earned on this, I may chance it if it pops up on iPlayer... Also, the Previn highlights on Spotify didn't have me sitting up and begging for more.

[LHC]

I’ve got the Kleiber and Karajan recordings on CD, the latter as part of the complete Karajan, VPO set on DECCA. Both are problematic, the Kleiber especially so for Rebroff. At least Karajan’s party scene can be skipped.

I also have several versions on DVD/Blu Ray, and as Nigel stated in the BAL, these make more sense of the extensive dialogue, especially in Act III, and I prefer them to the CD recordings I have. I have Jurowski from Glyndebourne, Bonynge from the ROH (Joan Sutherland’s farewell performance), Guschlbauer from Vienna (with one of the best casts anywhere: Lucia Popp, Edita Gruberova, Fassbaender, Weikl and Walter Berry) and Kleiber from Munich (in the same traditional Otto Schenck production used in Vienna). The Kleiber DVD is superb, and very recommendable as it features Fassbaender as Orlofsky rather than the ghastly Rebroff.

If you want Kleiber without Rebroff, get the DVD.

[Master Jacques]

"Oh ... Rosalinda!" achives an "all rotten" rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and the reviews don't inspire much hope. I'm not chancing my hard earned on this, I may chance it if it pops up on iPlayer... Also, the Previn highlights on Spotify didn't have me sitting up and begging for more.

My advice Mal is to ignore ratings emanating from Hollywood-mazed sheep, who wouldn't "get" this film in a million years. The restoration is a magnificent job, as with Hoffmann, Red Shoes and Colonel Blimp. As a big P&P fan, I'm enthusiastic about this film, so I hope you might trust positive comments from trusted sources, in preference to predictable nonsense on Rotten Tomatoes. Self-styled 'movie critics' are a mediocre bunch, with very few exceptions, and are not to be trusted. Give the remastered film a try, if you can.

[Master Jacques]

I also have several versions on DVD/Blu Ray, and as Nigel stated in the BAL, these make more sense of the extensive dialogue, especially in Act III, and I prefer them to the CD recordings I have

Quite right, in my opinion. The Bat doesn't make too much sense, musically, unless you see it as Strauss intended, with all the sparkling dialogue (whether in German or English). I have rarely laughed so much in the theatre as I did at Frankie Howerd's extended turn as Frosch the gaoler (which is most of Act III) at ENO a considerable while ago - it's opera, not a concert!

While I'm about it, I'd like to say a word contra Kleiber. His pummelling speed is exhilarating first time you hear it, but palls on repetition, making the music come across as feverish and frantic rather than lusciously light.

[makropulos]

Quite right, in my opinion. The Bat doesn't make too much sense, musically, unless you see it as Strauss intended, with all the sparkling dialogue (whether in German or English). I have rarely laughed so much in the theatre as I did at Frankie Howerd's extended turn as Frosch the gaoler (which is most of Act III) at ENO a considerable while ago - it's opera, not a concert!

While I'm about it, I'd like to say a word contra Kleiber. His pummelling speed is exhilarating first time you hear it, but palls on repetition, making the music come across as feverish and frantic rather than lusciously light.

Chacun à son goût, as the song says, but having lived with the Kleiber DVD for decades, I don't find it palls in the least. And having listened to it again several times recently, my admiration for his conducting of Fledermaus increases. Of course, there are more relaxed approaches that can work too (Previn is a nice example –though I really wish they'd remix it), but I like a Fledermaus that fizzes and –for me –Kleiber does that as well as anybody.

[Master Jacques]

Chacun à son goût, as the song says, but having lived with the Kleiber DVD for decades, I don't find it palls in the least. And having listened to it again several times recently, my admiration for his conducting of Fledermaus increases. Of course, there are more relaxed approaches that can work too (Previn is a nice example –though I really wish they'd remix it), but I like a Fledermaus that fizzes and –for me –Kleiber does that as well as anybody.

"Fizz" is indeed a movable feast, and depends on taste. These days, I personally prefer gentle petillance to full bubbly, when it comes to J. Strauss and much else!

Similarly as time moves on, I find that I don't enjoy Carlos Kleiber's opera recordings - on CD - as much as I once did. I would make the same criticism of his Freischütz, for example; and even his Tristan now seems on occasion to get into more of a lather than is good for it. There's no doubt he gets what he wants, and conveys it graphically - but the older I get, the more I feel frustrated that his virtuosic brilliance pulls focus too much, at least in "singers' operas" such as this one, and the Weber.

(I didn't hear your BaL on Saturday, and am looking forward to catching up with it.)

[Maclintick]

I didn't hear your BaL on Saturday, and am looking forward to catching up with it.

This was my intention, too, but I suspect I may be in a similar position to other Forumites, who, finding the new 10:30 BAL slot inconvenient for a variety of reasons, resolve to catch-up later in the week but are then presented with further demands on their time which jostle and compete.Then Sat looms & it's nearly time for the next BAL...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Apologies for not highlighting the recommended versions in the OP. It's something I try to do every week after the broadcast. For some reason, I forgot, though I did order the Vienna/Karajan.