BaL 9.07.22 - Walton: Symphony no. 1

[cloughie]

I am with you - that widely praised disc of French music I found slick but soulless.

Chaque a son gout as they dit! Too hot to argue!

[Pulcinella]

Interesting that when EMI/Warner put out their "Collector's Edition" (now removed from the catalogue, perhaps due to their only conceiving of a single "Collector" ) they chose the Haitink over the Rattle to represent the 1st Symphony, though they went for Rattle in Belshazzar's Feast.

Perhaps even more interesting that they didn't choose Walton's own recordings?

I'm with you and others (as mentioned before) regarding John Wilson, particularly with respect to that French music CD and his Copland.

[mahlerfan]

You hit the nail on the head. My guess is that Hurwitz's criteria for his disdain were rather different.

You guess wrong. It's almost exactly what Barbirollians said. All three of you are on the same page on this. I tend to think the opposite of what Hurwitz thinks on matters like this.

[Alison]

Have you noticed the vast majority of Dave’s Faves are from the sixties and seventies when presumably he was getting his teeth into the repertoire?

An inability to think past his first versions has been noted.

[cloughie]

Have you noticed the vast majority of Dave’s Faves are from the sixties and seventies when presumably he was getting his teeth into the repertoire?

An inability to think past his first versions has been noted.

I can’t think why anyone would do that.

[mahlerfan]

Have you noticed the vast majority of Dave’s Faves are from the sixties and seventies when presumably he was getting his teeth into the repertoire?

An inability to think past his first versions has been noted.

Aren't we, on this forum, a little like that too?

Edit: I missed the irony in post #95

[Maclintick]

I get the impression that some conductors meticulously prepare through score marking and rehearsal and don’t like adjusting the “interpretation “ in performance . Others , like Beecham, winged it a lot . I think Previn was a very careful preparer - a keen score studier but he was prepared to go with the flow a bit . Not least on the celebrated occasion when , on tour in the US , the orchestra weren’t quite concentrating , and only the front four string desks played the opening bar of Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony . They concentrated like mad after that….

It's certainly not true that Beecham just "winged it" & didn't prepare. With his hand-picked band of trusted players of course he'd be be able to respond to the moment, but many of his scores with their meticulous blue pencil markings are still carefully preserved in the libraries of such bodies as the Delius Trust, for instance. Incidentally, that Beethoven 5 story suggests to me that Mr. Preview vaulted onto the podium & began conducting without looking at his players & establishing their readiness -- happy to have the contrary confirmed by an ex-LSO player who was there, though...
Just listened to BSO/Karabits & enjoyed the warmly cohesive sound of the orchestra, KK's well-judged tempi, clear relishing of contrasts between & within movements, & the BSO's classy wind & brass contributions ( I think TS mentioned the poignancy of the valedictory trumpet & flute before the finale's coda).

[Barbirollians]

You guess wrong. It's almost exactly what Barbirollians said. All three of you are on the same page on this. I tend to think the opposite of what Hurwitz thinks on matters like this.

Didn’t someone say Hurwitz was like a stopped clock

[Ein Heldenleben]

It's certainly not true that Beecham just "winged it" & didn't prepare. With his hand-picked band of trusted players of course he'd be be able to respond to the moment, but many of his scores with their meticulous blue pencil markings are still carefully preserved in the libraries of such bodies as the Delius Trust, for instance. Incidentally, that Beethoven 5 story suggests to me that Mr. Preview vaulted onto the podium & began conducting without looking at his players & establishing their readiness -- happy to have the contrary confirmed by an ex-LSO player who was there, though...
Just listened to BSO/Karabits & enjoyed the warmly cohesive sound of the orchestra, KK's well-judged tempi, clear relishing of contrasts between & within movements, & the BSO's classy wind & brass contributions ( I think TS mentioned the poignancy of the valedictory trumpet & flute before the finale's coda).

I didn’t say Beecham didn’t prepare . What he did do was change his mind between rehearsal and performance. You can only do that successfully by meticulously preparing. If the musicians are really watching you it’s perfectly possible to make copious tempi and dynamic changes on the hoof.

[mahlerfan]

Didn’t someone say Hurwitz was like a stopped clock

Is that a question?

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Maclintick]

I didn’t say Beecham didn’t prepare . What he did do was change his mind between rehearsal and performance. You can only do that successfully by meticulously preparing. If the musicians are really watching you it’s perfectly possible to make copious tempi and dynamic changes on the hoof.

There's a huge difference between conductor & players responding "in the moment" and a situation where the conductor, having rehearsed & made his or her intentions clear to the players, then decides to go off-piste in the concert, effectively contradicting instructions given in rehearsal. Possibly wonderful, but equally possibly a recipe for disaster.

[Ein Heldenleben]

There's a huge difference between conductor & players responding "in the moment" and a situation where the conductor, having rehearsed & made his or her intentions clear to the players, then decides to go off-piste in the concert, effectively contradicting instructions given in rehearsal. Possibly wonderful, but equally possibly a recipe for disaster.

From what I’ve heard from orchestral musicians changing things on the hoof happens more often than you might think. To be honest replicating the rehearsal is just boring isn’t it?

[Pianoman]

Is that a question?

I'm not sure what you mean.

It's just the usual, rather tedious critic-bashing that this forum likes so much...
Actually, he likes a lot of newer performances of stuff, but tends to imprint on 'first-love' recordings, like most on here I would guess...

[Maclintick]

To be honest replicating the rehearsal is just boring isn’t it?

Depends on the repertoire, the time available for rehearsal, and the trust between conductor & players. A good conductor will often indicate to the players in rehearsal "Look, I might take a bit more time here, OK ? So just be aware" or similar...This may result in boredom, as you imply, or it may be that the conception of a work residing in a conductor's head, with which the members of the orchestra have fleeting connection in rehearsal due to concentrating on "getting it right", takes flight in the concert in mysterious ways which the individual players may not have anticipated. I'm thinking here of a BH or Wand in Bruckner, perhaps, whose grasp of the whole work ensures that pieces of the musical mosaic miraculously slot into place during the performance. Here, preparation is all.

[mahlerfan]

It's just the usual, rather tedious critic-bashing that this forum likes so much...
Actually, he likes a lot of newer performances of stuff, but tends to imprint on 'first-love' recordings, like most on here I would guess...

Yes, I think I agree.... it's a bit childish