BaL 2.07.22 - Beethoven: Missa Solemnis

[Bryn]

The ‘overblown pomposity’ is certainly not the composer’s fault. Versions with big amateur choirs tend to annoy me nowadays with very frequent intonation issues, especially at cadences. (A lot of talk this morning about Beethoven not ‘religious’ but the music is ‘spiritual’. No idea what that’s about.)
My favourite performance at the moment is Suzuki’s, nothing overblown there!

It has previously been argued that in the Missa Solemnis, Beethoven stressed humanism over religiosity, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/07/a...-humanist.html (sorry about the possible pay-wall).

[Tony Halstead]

"My chosen record store (Avgarde Gallery in Manchester)"

My goodness..... 'those were the days'! In about 1961-1962 I used to work there on Saturdays, ostensibly with the idea of earning some pocket money as a teenage schoolboy, but it usually turned out that Mr Baxter 'paid' me in LPs!

Apologies for digressing from the subject matter of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis. I played on one of the recordings discussed today: Gardiner's earlier
DGG one; I also played on a recording that wasn't mentioned: Terje Kvam / Hanover Band. I can say, however, that I prefer Herreweghe's earlier recording to either of the latter.

[RichardB]

In about 1961-1962 I used to work there on Saturdays, ostensibly with the idea of earning some pocket money as a teenage schoolboy, but it usually turned out that Mr Baxter 'paid' me in LPs!

That is a very familiar story to me - I also had a Saturday job in a record shop as a teenager and I very rarely brought much cash home! and then my first job after university was also in a record shop! - bad idea...

[gradus]

That is a very familiar story to me - I also had a Saturday job in a record shop as a teenager and I very rarely brought much cash home! and then my first job after university was also in a record shop! - bad idea...

I too worked briefly in a record shop -The Gramophone Exchange in Wardour Street - 1963/4, a fascinating place with some musically interesting customers - John Barry, Constantin Silvestri, Igor Kipnis come to mind, and unusually for the time a huge department devoted to buying and selling 78's and run by Sibelius lookalike, George Russell, as well as a section selling and buying s/h LPs. They also supplied hi fi equipment, so quite a comprehensive offering.

[Lordgeous]

Ah, many memories of the Gramophone Exchange. I must have spent rather too much of my student grant there! Did the E.M.G. Monthly Letter emanate from there?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was really surprised that Karajan 1966 won the "Oscar". I liked it very much, and may buy it, but there was so much talk of HIPP (and the more extreme HCP - Historically Correct Practice, which makes some sweeping assumptions).

[Goon525]

Ah, many memories of the Gramophone Exchange. I must have spent rather too much of my student grant there! Did the E.M.G. Monthly Letter emanate from there?

No, I think the shop in Soho Square actually was called EMG.

[Lordgeous]

Of course! Memory duly jogged. Thankyou.

[cloughie]

No, I think the shop in Soho Square actually was called EMG.

Indeed so - the ‘Monthly Letter’ and the ‘Art of Record Buying shaped many a purchase in our house, however this thread is about BaL on Missa Solemnis and there appears to be so little comment that I can only assume was the programme so uneventful that nobody is very interested in the work or that it was neither remarkable or informative. I’ll havevto listen on sounds to find out!

[MickyD]

Yes, though I hardly know the work myself, I am really surprised that this BAL hasn't excited a lot more comments. I have both Tony Halstead's accounts, but would like to get some more thoughts on newer HIP versions.

[mikealdren]

No, I think the shop in Soho Square actually was called EMG.

See here for the history of both and, of course, Gramex and Roger Hewland. Anyone know how he is?

https://st33.wordpress.com/record-shops/closed/emg-the-shop/

[Petrushka]

...[H]owever this thread is about BaL on Missa Solemnis and there appears to be so little comment that I can only assume was the programme so uneventful that nobody is very interested in the work or that it was neither remarkable or informative. I’ll have to listen on sounds to find out!

I'm even more surprised to see so much negative comment on this Forum on the work itself from the simple 'don't know it' to, in effect, 'Beethoven didn't know what he was doing'.

I expected much, much better than this.

[Alison]

This edition reminded me a bit of Ted Greenfield, good overview of the recorded history and finding it easy to be complimentary about nearly every version. Most listeners will have felt included and not offended I guess!
For myself I was rather taken by the Solti, would have liked more comment on the later JEG version and will investigate the Sydney Mackerras which I had forgotten about.

[gurnemanz]

This edition reminded me a bit of Ted Greenfield, good overview of the recorded history and finding it easy to be complimentary about nearly every version. Most listeners will have felt included and not offended I guess!
For myself I was rather taken by the Solti, would have liked more comment on the later JEG version and will investigate the Sydney Mackerras which I had forgotten about.

I also enjoyed Solti and will follow up. I was pleased to hear an extract from the 1955 Böhm Berlin recording which was my first LP 50 years ago on cheapo Heliodor label. Still got it but not played for ages.

I have the earlier HvK Philharmonia recording and won't get the other one, as recommended. It was not mentioned, though preferred by some. Seems not to be download only as listed by Alpie. https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...missa-solemnis

[Petrushka]

Which Solti? There are three (CSO, BPO & LPO).