BaL 2.07.22 - Beethoven: Missa Solemnis

[EnemyoftheStoat]

As for David Hurwitz ... he is the stopped clock of critics: right twice a day, wrong the rest of the time. I remember that on one occasion (I forget the work, but the conductor was Barbirolli) he rudely dismissed the pungent and characterful Hallé brass section as incompetent. When questioned, he knew nothing about the great, northern English brass tradition, and simply condemned the section because it didn't sound exactly like the New York Phil. For him, Manchester was just some provincial backwater, so how could they do things properly, in their own way?

Hurwitz is the fellow who referred (in insulting terms) to "Skrowaczewski's time at Hallé" as if it were a place. Anyone who knows anything about anything knows to use the definite article.

[Barbirollians]

Hurwitz is the fellow who referred (in insulting terms) to "Skrowaczewski's time at Hallé" as if it were a place. Anyone who knows anything about anything knows to use the definite article.

I must admit to not enjoying Skrowacewski's time at the Halle when he came to the Sheffield City Hall - the orchestra was at a pretty low ebb and he seemed very bored most of the time.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hurwitz is the fellow who referred (in insulting terms) to "Skrowaczewski's time at Hallé" as if it were a place. Anyone who knows anything about anything knows to use the definite article.

Hurwitz probably thought the Hallé Orchestra was in Halle (Germany). Well it’s about as rational as many of his other comments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_(Saale)

[RichardB]

As for David Hurwitz ... he is the stopped clock of critics: right twice a day, wrong the rest of the time.

I really don't think he deserves such fulsome praise!

[Bryn]

I really don't think he deserves such fulsome praise!

An older usage of "fulsome" denotes precisely the type of praise he deserves.

[Barbirollians]

An older usage of "fulsome" denotes precisely the type of praise he deserves.

I tend to regard recordings he savages as likely to be worth a listen.

[Bryn]

I tend to regard recordings he savages as likely to be worth a listen.

Quite!

[makropulos]

I've a few recordings of the Missa solemnis all of which have something good (or very good) going for them:

Bernstein/Concertgebouw DG
Böhm DG mono
Böhm DG stereo
Herrewghe, second recording
Jochum Philips
Klemperer EMI
Mackerras Eloquence
Tate EMI

I'd find it hard to dismiss any of these, but Klemperer is probably the one I play most often. Still, I like Tate's smaller-scale approach, and Mackerras's wonderfully muscular Sydney performance a lot as well. Of the two Böhm versions, I marginally prefer the earlier one as it's got a bit more grit. Very fond of Jochum too, and for period instruments Herreweghe's second recording has appealed to me a lot ever since I reviewed it for IRR quite a few years ago... Not an easy one to do for BAL!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've a few recordings of the Missa solemnis all of which have something good (or very good) going for them...



I'd find it hard to dismiss any of these, but Klemperer is probably the one I play most often.

I remember the release of the Klemperer. My chosen record store (Avgarde Gallery in Manchester) were rather disparaging about it; not because of the performance, but because of some audio distortion. However, the reviews were all good, so I wonder whether they'd just sampled a poor pressing. (Their playing equipment was among the best available.)

[MickyD]

Does anyone have the very first HIP attempt of the work from Collegium Aureum on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi in the 70s? I seem to recall it getting a very tough reception in Gramophone at the time. I don't think it ever made it to CD.

[Bryn]

I have it on vinyl but have only played it once or twice, I was not impressed:

[MickyD]

That's what I remember being said about it! Nonetheless a fascinating part of the HIP story.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Only 2 hours away.

[Keraulophone]

At the risk of offending Mario and others, this is a work I simply don't have any feeling for (and I've tried); in an attempt to get away from any overblown grandiosity…

.
I’m glad I’m not the only one, judging by similar comments on here. One flinches at the attempts of (particularly amateur) choirs to sing all the notes with the required stamina. IMV the Mass in C is more rewarding to sing and to listen to, although I understand why the ‘greater’ work is so highly valued. I have tried, at the Proms and elsewhere, but my few recordings obstinately remain on the shelf. Even Colin Davis’s agreement with Mario didn’t convince during a televised Prom interview. Bernstein live in Amsterdam in 1979 was about as seat-edge as it gets, but of course that’s not the whole story told by the composer. TBH, I’d far rather listen to one or two of his late string quarters for quasi-spiritual enlightenment.

Let’s hope personal identifications of The Greatest Work doesn’t lead to similar claims….
.

Mass in B minor, anyone?!

[jonfan]

The ‘overblown pomposity’ is certainly not the composer’s fault. Versions with big amateur choirs tend to annoy me nowadays with very frequent intonation issues, especially at cadences. (A lot of talk this morning about Beethoven not ‘religious’ but the music is ‘spiritual’. No idea what that’s about.)
My favourite performance at the moment is Suzuki’s, nothing overblown there!