BaL 2.07.22 - Beethoven: Missa Solemnis

[Mario]

Found it!

Been searching for it and found René Jacobs version of the MS.

David Hurwitz’s review of the various sections of the MS can easily be found on You Tube. (Forget the hip hop review!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu-yara42rc

I am now one of his most fervent admirers (DH that is not RJ).

Here is the close of the Gloria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR-84Fshroo&list=OLAK5uy_mbinsjsRqssq46eq6gAqZPoTc85WjVkyo&index=6

You be the judge…

[RichardB]

I am now one of his most fervent admirers (DH that is not RJ).

[raised eyebrow]

[Barbirollians]

Found it!

Been searching for it and found René Jacobs version of the MS.

David Hurwitz’s review of the various sections of the MS can easily be found on You Tube. (Forget the hip hop review!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu-yara42rc

I am now one of his most fervent admirers (DH that is not RJ).

Here is the close of the Gloria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR-84Fshroo&list=OLAK5uy_mbinsjsRqssq46eq6gAqZPoTc85WjVkyo&index=6

You be the judge…

I am not a fervent admirer of either of them.

[smittims]

Hi mandryka, I think Furtwangler may have avoided the Missa Solemnis because he wasn't a conventional Christian believer (as I believe Toscanini and Karajan were). So he preferred to leave it to others.

It's significant that he conducted very few 'sacred' works. True, he did a fine 'St Matthew Passion', but then , so did the notably agnostic Vaughan Williams, for its status as a work of the people.

[Bryn]

Hi mandryka, I think Furtwangler may have avoided the Missa Solemnis because he wasn't a conventional Christian believer (as I believe Toscanini and Karajan were). So he preferred to leave it to others.

It's significant that he conducted very few 'sacred' works. True, he did a fine 'St Matthew Passion', but then , so did the notably agnostic Vaughan Williams, for its status as a work of the people.

I don't really buy the argument in the first paragraph. Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is no conventional expression of the Christian faith. It is far more humanist in its approach, surely?

[Mario]

And I completely agree with you Bryn! Honestly, I was going to start another thread on how necessary posters thought a religious belief to be crucial to performers doing justice to a religious work.

Incidentally, Bryn, I also wanted to thank you for your post 61. Many commentators, although of course I cannot name any right now, considered the “dramatist” in LvB to be continuously at odds with his religious beliefs. I haven’t made a study of this, but could be the reason why it is such a difficult work to listen to and to bring off?

And why does Verdi’s Requiem not suffer similarly? The Tubas mirum is more dramatic than religious, isn’t it?

[Bryn]

And I completely agree with you Bryn! Honestly, I was going to start another thread on how necessary posters thought a religious belief to be crucial to performers doing justice to a religious work.

Incidentally, Bryn, I also wanted to thank you for your post 61. Many commentators, although of course I cannot name any right now, considered the “dramatist” in LvB to be continuously at odds with his religious beliefs. I haven’t made a study of this, but could be the reason why it is such a difficult work to listen to and to bring off?

And why does Verdi’s Requiem not suffer similarly? The Tubas mirum is more dramatic than religious, isn’t it?

Heh, heh. A silly aside. Back In 1977, I was involved in a near-fatal motorcycle/car collision. I was in a coma for a few days and as I gradually regained consciousness the house doctor (who, it transpired, was a nephew of that fine actor Norman Beaton) had been advised that I was very fond of music. At first, they tried Radio 2 but my father quickly intervened to suggest something 'classical' the house doctor then tried asking me what I would like to listen to. In my dazed state, I suggested the Dies Irae from that very Verdi Requiem. This was greeted as an indication that I was preparing for death. Fa from it, I wanted the exhilaration generated by it; something they soon picked up on once they started playing the Giulini recording through the headphone my father has popped out to purchase.

[Mario]

Not a “silly” aside at all, far from it. Good to hear that no lasting damage has been done?

Norman Beaton of “Desmond’s” correct?

Didn’t I read the sad tale of him returning back home to Guyana to retire only to collapse at the airport and die of a heart attack?

[smittims]

Yes, Bryn, Beethoven's is not a conventional catholic mass, and of course any music can be played as music.

I once knew someone who preferred the Giulini Verdi Requiem because he was a devout catholic and identified with the work personally. I didn't like to tell her Verdi was a sturdy agnostic.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Heh, heh. A silly aside. Back In 1977, I was involved in a near-fatal motorcycle/car collision. I was in a coma for a few days and as I gradually regained consciousness the house doctor (who, it transpired, was a nephew of that fine actor Norman Beaton) had been advised that I was very fond of music. At first, they tried Radio 2 but my father quickly intervened to suggest something 'classical' the house doctor then tried asking me what I would like to listen to. In my dazed state, I suggested the Dies Irae from that very Verdi Requiem. This was greeted as an indication that I was preparing for death. Fa from it, I wanted the exhilaration generated by it; something they soon picked up on once they started playing the Giulini recording through the headphone my father has popped out to purchase.

Rather brave of you asking for the Die Irae. I would have hedged my bets and gone for the Credo.

[Bryn]

Rather brave of you asking for the Die Irae. I would have hedged my bets and gone for the Credo.

Among the minor injuries I sustained was a blood blister on the right eardrum. I wanted something loud and percussive. I was worried I was to lose hearing on the right-hand side. With a loud 'crack' a few days later, the scab fell away and the amazing regenerative properties of the human metabolism had basically repaired the damage to the tympanic membrane.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Among the minor injuries I sustained was a blood blister on the right eardrum. I wanted something loud and percussive. I was worried I was to lose hearing on the right-hand side. With a loud 'crack' a few days later, the scab fell away and the amazing regenerative properties of the human metabolism had basically repaired the damage to the tympanic membrane.

That must have been something of a medical first - I mean the use of percussive music . Good to hear things healed. The ability of the eardrum to recover even from perforation is extraordinary.

[cloughie]

Yes, Bryn, Beethoven's is not a conventional catholic mass, and of course any music can be played as music.

I once knew someone who preferred the Giulini Verdi Requiem because he was a devout catholic and identified with the work personally. I didn't like to tell her Verdi was a sturdy agnostic.

Faure was also agnostic - maybe the less they believe the better the requiem they write!

[Bryn]

Faure was also agnostic - maybe the less they believe the better the requiem they write!

Janacek would appear to add credence to that consideration.

[gradus]

Odd that Elgar wrote no requiem mass.