BaL 11.06.22 - Debussy: La Mer

[richardfinegold]

One of those pieces that Toscanini did to perfection imv and never mind the recording quality thus I've never bothered to buy other versions good as I am sure they are.

I subscribe to Pristine Audio streaming service, and I'm a bit surprised to see the that only Toscanini offering is a 1936 version with the (proto) NYP. I am listening to it now. There is a fair amount of surface noise, and occassional break up at some climaxes, in this recording but once the music gets going it
again astounds me of the vintage -86 years old now. I am hearing subsidiary lines that I had never noticed before And I agree with gradus, this seems sui genereis.

[Pulcinella]

Bump!

Listened to the LPO/Baudo (nla) during the week and thought it impressive, though it was perhaps an unfair comparison (iPod through headphones rather than the usual stereo setup).
Score in the post; looking forward to using it to get to know the piece (and some of the best interpretations) better as a result of today's BaL.

[Master Jacques]

It's a "cliché" that French orchestras do La Mer better, says the reviewer. Really? I'm not sure I've seen any such "cliché" in print, and suspect an Aunt Sally here! Which French performances have been bigged up to be better than they are? Or "foreign" ones under-rated? The reviewer is leaving us in the dark. So far, so dubious.

[Alison]

Not very penetrating.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It's a "cliché" that French orchestras do La Mer better, says the reviewer. Really? I'm not sure I've seen any such "cliché" in print, and suspect an Aunt Sally here! Which French performances have been bigged up to be better than they are? Or "foreign" ones under-rated? The reviewer is leaving us in the dark. So far, so dubious.

Yes there’s only one French orchestra listed in my Penguin Guide. If anything the US bands have an armlock on this work - esp the CSO and BSO. Has the Reiner been mentioned yet ?

[Bryn]

Yes there’s only one French orchestra listed in my Penguin Guide. If anything the US bands have an armlock on this work - esp the CSO and BSO. Has the Reiner been mentioned yet ?

Well, a French Orchestra (though, of course, of international composition) was the final choice).

[Pulcinella]

Disappointing, I thought.
From an initial rather short shortlist, the reviewer fairly easily dismissed some of the chosen few, while saying she had reluctantly not been able to include other favourites; one wonders on what grounds they were dismissed!

[underthecountertenor]

Not very penetrating.

A critic who can say that ‘un peu en dehors’ means ‘a bit sort of at a distance if you like, outside,’ and criticise Karajan’s horns for being too prominent at that point (unchallenged by her conversation partner) can’t be very reliable.

[Bryn]

A critic who can say that ‘un peu en dehors’ means ‘a bit sort of at a distance if you like, outside,’ and criticise Karajan’s horns for being too prominent at that point (unchallenged by her conversation partner) can’t be very reliable.

What, exactly, is your objection to her interpretation of "un peu en dehors'?

[Alison]

That felt, not for the first time, like an academic really struggling with issues of performance, no meaningful overview and vague in detail.

Lots of historical facts and quotes didn’t disguise lack of real meat for us library builders!

[Bryn]

That felt, not for the first time, like an academic really struggling with issues of performance, no meaningful overview and vague in detail.

Lots of historical facts and quotes are not really the thing for us hungry for real meat library builders!

Nonetheless, I concur with her final choice, both of the trio and the final selection

[underthecountertenor]

What, exactly, is your objection to her interpretation of "un peu en dehors'?

It’s almost the exact opposite of what it means, in a musical context, which is ‘slightly emphasised,’ or ‘slightly brought out.’ Duruflé uses it in his motets in places to ensure that the plainsong line is brought out. Willson seemed to think that it means something like ‘as if you’re a bit outside the room’. So as a criticism of Karajan’s horns at the relevant point it’s completely misplaced.

[Ein Heldenleben]

What, exactly, is your objection to her interpretation of "un peu en dehors'?

I think what UTC is saying is that the French phrase “un peu en dehors “ means bring out or emphasise the melody not “at a sort of a distance “ . Precisely what H von K does. Fairly amazing that none of the music graduates in the studio spotted that.
Un peu en dehors is used a lot by Debussy.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That felt, not for the first time, like an academic really struggling with issues of performance, no meaningful overview and vague in detail.

Lots of historical facts and quotes didn’t disguise lack of real meat for us library builders!

Bang on - as usual ! They should get you in.

[underthecountertenor]

I think what UTC is saying is that the French phrase “un peu en dehors “ means bring out or emphasise the melody not “at a sort of a distance “ . Precisely what H von K does. Fairly amazing that none of the music graduates in the studio spotted that.
Un peu en dehors is used a lot by Debussy.

Thanks, Ein Heldenleben - precisely what (in my clumsy way) I was trying to say!