BaL 30.04.22 - Chopin: Piano Sonata no. 3 in B minor

[Ein Heldenleben]

I find this sonata hard to like, as a whole. I love the first movement, and the last is splendid in its way, but it does not seem to build into a whole somehow. I have heard Demidenko and Krystian Zimerman play it live, the latter in particular technically secure and thrilling in the last movement.

There is I think a lockdown performance by Argerich from 2020, on Youtube.

Interesting point .In a Beethoven sonata there’s nearly always a strong thread be it tonal e,g Op 90.or thematic (and tonal) e.gOp 106 . Or “deep structure” and tonality Op 109. It’s very difficult to see that thread in this sonata. The first movement in particular always seems such an enigma whereas in the first movement of the B flat minor you just know where it’s going musically. There is tonal plan in the B minor sonata but it takes a lot of puzzling out - maybe that’s a good thing.

[Jonathan]

Have you heard Kissin?

Not yet - I'll have to investigate

[BBMmk2]

Surprisingly, I could only find two Argerich recordings: 1965 and 1967. Surely she’s played it since then?

Oh, that does surprise me! I’m sure she has I’ll have a look, myself, too! I have her earlier recording, 1965.

PS I can’t find any other, either. Again, most surprising.

[silvestrione]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPOUbjb8nw

[gradus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPOUbjb8nw

Thanks for posting that performance, just wonderful.

[neiltingley]

9.30 Building a Library
Allyson Devenish compares recordings of Chopin’s Piano Sonata No 3 in B minor and chooses her favourite.

Chopin’s final piano sonata was composed in 1844 and dedicated to Countess Émilie de Perthuis. It is a work of immense complexity, both technically and musically, and comprises four movements. The sonata opens with heavy chords in B minor, but journeys through a Scherzo and dream-like Nocturne, before ending in a dazzling Finale, which starts in B minor but ends triumphantly in a B major Coda.

I don't know why but I've never liked this sonata. it's nearly as awful as his silly piano concertos. Chopin wrote a lot of guff. Just an opinion but I am not a big fan of the composer in general.

[Ein Heldenleben]

“Default BaL 30.04.22 - Chopin: Piano Sonata no. 3 in B minor
9.30 Building a Library
Allyson Devenish compares recordings of Chopin’s Piano Sonata No 3 in B minor and chooses her favourite.

Chopin’s final piano sonata was composed in 1844 and dedicated to Countess Émilie de Perthuis. It is a work of immense complexity, both technically and musically, and comprises four movements. The sonata opens with heavy chords in B minor, but journeys through a Scherzo and dream-like Nocturne, before ending in a dazzling Finale, which starts in B minor but ends triumphantly in a B major Coda.”

Who writes this stuff . The sonata doesn’t open with “heavy chords” really . Compared with what ? The Tschaikovsky B flat minor Piano Concerto? The finale of Schumann’s Symphonic variations? Chopin hardly ever writes “heavy chords” . He put huge care into chord voicing - he was so fastidious. Just look at the voicing in the Dflat chordal section of the C sharp minor scherzo - meticulously done to avoid over crowding the bass. It’s amazing how often he even voices things to avoid doubled thirds - like he’s writing a choral piece.

[cloughie]

I don't know why but I've never liked this sonata. it's nearly as awful as his silly piano concertos. Chopin wrote a lot of guff. Just an opinion but I am not a big fan of the composer in general.

For many years I did not get Chopin though I did like the Concerti mostly through the superb Pollini/Kletzki PC1. A few years ago two things changed my mind - one was that I started to learn to play the piano and Chopin’s music was possible, though not easy for me to play. The other was hearing Samson Francois’ recordings which to me gave a more Gallic, almost Debussian charm to them.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I don't know why but I've never liked this sonata. it's nearly as awful as his silly piano concertos. Chopin wrote a lot of guff. Just an opinion but I am not a big fan of the composer in general.

In fact partly because of his popularity in the concert hall and the lollipop pieces he’s one of the most misunderstood indeed underrated 19th century composers . The Polonaise Fantasie and Bacarolle , the F minor Ballade are masterpieces which stand comparison with just about anything written in the Romantic era . It’s not his fault they are not symphonies or operas - those weren’t his genre.

[cloughie]

In fact partly because of his popularity in the concert hall and the lollipop pieces he’s one of the most misunderstood indeed underrated 19th century composers . The Polonaise Fantasie and Bacarolle , the F minor Ballade are masterpieces which stand comparison with just about anything written in the Romantic era . It’s not his fault they are not symphonies or operas - those weren’t his genre.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Who writes this stuff . The sonata doesn’t open with “heavy chords” really . Compared with what ? The Tschaikovsky B flat minor Piano Concerto? The finale of Schumann’s Symphonic variations? Chopin hardly ever writes “heavy chords” . He put huge care into chord voicing - he was so fastidious. Just look at the voicing in the Dflat chordal section of the C sharp minor scherzo - meticulously done to avoid over crowding the bass. It’s amazing how often he even voices things to avoid doubled thirds - like he’s writing a choral piece.

It doesn’t begin with chords at all. The standard of musical journalism at Radio 3 is a shadow of what we should expect.

[visualnickmos]

It doesn’t begin with chords at all. The standard of musical journalism at Radio 3 is a shadow of what we should expect.

Not wrong there, that's for sure. Increasingly the presenters sound like teachers talking to a class of 12 year-olds.

[neiltingley]

Stuff I like - all of the above!
Plus

- f minor fantasy
- opus 48/1 nocturne
- C minor polonaise
- some of opus 25
- many of the Mazurkas

:-)

Probably a case of over-exposure.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Stuff I like - all of the above!
Plus

- f minor fantasy
- opus 48/1 nocturne
- C minor polonaise
- some of opus 25
- many of the Mazurkas

:-)

Probably a case of over-exposure.

To which I would add
preludes underplayed be use they are too difficult to get up to perf
Standard ?
Nocturnes - many miniature masterpieces
F # minor Polonaise - what a piece !

[Keraulophone]

Having listened to Martha Argerich's performance in Hamburg two years ago (thank you, silvestrione for the YT link), one is imbued with the feeling, for a few hours at least, that no other pianist need be sought out to maximise the delights of this music. It's all there, a distillation of a lifetime spent with Chopin, allied to a remarkably well-preserved technique.

Someone in the YT comments quoted a Gramophone article on MA in which 'Krystian Zimerman wrote to Argerich to tell her that her interpretation of the Chopin sonata No3, this one, was the best interpretation he ever heard.'
,