BaL 16.04.22 - Handel: Messiah

[Petrushka]

The opening blurb is the worst I've seen and inaccurate. A good chunk of the text is from the Book of Common Prayer.

While the opening blurb is the sort of drivel we've come to expect these days, it is correct in that the entire text is taken from the King James Bible, including the Psalms. I've just double checked with the booklet included with the Mackerras/ECO LP set to make sure. None of Jennens' masterly reworking of the text is taken from the BCP., though , of course, some Biblical passages (the Burial Service in Part III for example) are included in the BCP.

[Wolfram]

Sorry to carp, but just listening tells me it's definitely Judith Nelson's voice, which had a slightly more colourful tone and more conventional (if still slimline) vibrato than Emma Kirkby's at that time, whose voice had a bell-like quasi-boy treble-like quality all its own (and shines out in But who may abide).

https://youtu.be/b7-OyYvqIx0

I thought it was Judith Nelson too. Emma Kirkby is very recognisable in the numbers she sings.

[ardcarp]

[jonfan]

While the opening blurb is the sort of drivel we've come to expect these days, it is correct in that the entire text is taken from the King James Bible, including the Psalms. I've just double checked with the booklet included with the Mackerras/ECO LP set to make sure. None of Jennens' masterly reworking of the text is taken from the BCP., though , of course, some Biblical passages (the Burial Service in Part III for example) are included in the BCP.

I’m quoting Watkins Shaw Novello which indicates the psalms are BCP.

[Petrushka]

I’m quoting Watkins Shaw Novello which indicates the psalms are BCP.

I've cross-referenced my copies of the KJV and BCP Psalms with Jennens' text and, while the differences are minimal, he does appear to be using the BCP version, at least where the difference is apparent.

[Retune]

The original BCP pre-dates the 1611 KJV, and even the 1662 BCP that became the standard version uses psalms derived from the earlier Coverdale bible. Looking quickly at the Messiah text, Psalm 2 starts with 'Why do the nations so furiously rage together, and why do the people imagine a vain thing?', which is closer to the 1662 BCP ('Why do the heathen so furiously rage together : and why do the people imagine a vain thing?') than to the KJV ('Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?').

[Retune]

From Hogwood's video version:

Emma Kirkby:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWMQ3UlQSys&t=807s

Judith Nelson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWMQ3UlQSys&t=6249s

[Retune]

From Hogwood's video version:

Emma Kirkby:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWMQ3UlQSys&t=807s

Judith Nelson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWMQ3UlQSys&t=6249s

...with the Choir of Westminster Abbey (I think from 1982).

[BBMmk2]

My favourite for period instruments is Trevor Pinnock but I do rather have a penchant for that Edition that Sir Andrew Davis made, on Chandos!

[Bryn]

Hogwood still remains supreme for me, having grown up with that whole vintage era of Florilegium recordings. But I also like the Higginbottom version that LMP suggests - with all male voices, it's probably the most HIPP version you could have.

How can it be more HIPP to not employ female singers?

[MickyD]

How can it be more HIPP to not employ female singers?

Well, yes, I see your point, but I was referring to Higginbottom's sleeve notes:

"Our version provides the only modern account of Handel's unique London performances in April and May 1751, when he used treble voices for choruses and arias. We don't know why. But clearly the Chapel Royal had a treble or two who could step up to the plate, and Handel was pleased to employ them on this exceptional occasion. So we have selected three of our own boys to do the same."

I guess there is no one definitive version of the work, but I do believe that Higginbottom's is the only one with all male voices.

[Retune]

The original BCP pre-dates the 1611 KJV, and even the 1662 BCP that became the standard version uses psalms derived from the earlier Coverdale bible. Looking quickly at the Messiah text, Psalm 2 starts with 'Why do the nations so furiously rage together, and why do the people imagine a vain thing?', which is closer to the 1662 BCP ('Why do the heathen so furiously rage together : and why do the people imagine a vain thing?') than to the KJV ('Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?').

Digging a bit deeper, that isn't quite right. The BCP version (at least of this line) seems to come not from the Coverdale Bible (1535) but from the Great Bible (1539), also prepared by Coverdale, the version authorised by Henry VIII. This would have been the official Bible when the first edition of the BCP was published in 1549. The line was retained in the Bishops' Bible of 1568, but gave way to more terse language in the 1611 KJV. Whether Jennens replaced 'heathen' with 'nations', or whether this came from some other version of the psalter isn't clear to me. 'Nations' is commonly used in later bibles, but I can't find one where it's used together with 'so furiously rage together'.

Here endeth the lesson. Happy Easter!

[Bryn]

Well, yes, I see your point, but I was referring to Higginbottom's sleeve notes:

"Our version provides the only modern account of Handel's unique London performances in April and May 1751, when he used treble voices for choruses and arias. We don't know why. But clearly the Chapel Royal had a treble or two who could step up to the plate, and Handel was pleased to employ them on this exceptional occasion. So we have selected three of our own boys to do the same."

I guess there is no one definitive version of the work, but I do believe that Higginbottom's is the only one with all male voices.

Thanks. Looks like I should import it and listen.

[MickyD]

It's very good, Bryn - with the AAM, Iestyn Davis and Toby Spence.

[jonfan]

Digging a bit deeper, that isn't quite right. The BCP version (at least of this line) seems to come not from the Coverdale Bible (1535) but from the Great Bible (1539), also prepared by Coverdale, the version authorised by Henry VIII. This would have been the official Bible when the first edition of the BCP was published in 1549. The line was retained in the Bishops' Bible of 1568, but gave way to more terse language in the 1611 KJV. Whether Jennens replaced 'heathen' with 'nations', or whether this came from some other version of the psalter isn't clear to me. 'Nations' is commonly used in later bibles, but I can't find one where it's used together with 'so furiously rage together'.

Here endeth the lesson. Happy Easter!

Thanks for all this 'digging'. Fascinating subject.