BaL 16.04.22 - Handel: Messiah

[ardcarp]

To your point, Darloboy....

Handel may have been German but the text of Messiah was compiled in English to be performed by British choirs.

...I would add that Handel's choral writing itself was much influenced by the English tradition of composers such as Croft, Greene and Boyce, even though Handel did it much better! (One only has to sing Handel's Dixit Dominus, written as a young man in Italy to get an idea of what might have been.)

However, I thought Jeremy Summerly did an excellent job, considering the impossible magnitude of the task. He didn't go all-out HIPP, acknowledging
the Beecham recording for instance, but giving due weight to the Hogwood/CCCO/Kirkby 1980 version. I also thought he handled the programme well. He was certainly in charge!

Interesting too that he had earlier rejected the French recordings of Messiah because they hadn’t ‘grown up with the music in their blood’,

You have a point there, LHC. In my experience though, many continental choirs have English singers in them. (I know a few,)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I concur with the view that the final recommendation was based on less than rational criteria: "recent", "German", etc.

Also, I was horrified to hear Beecham being introduced by his recording of the Hallelujah Chorus. Don't get me wrong; I think Beecham's 1959 recording is magnificent on many ways, but his Hallelujah Chorus is simply bombastic and ugly. If you want to illustrate the Beecham in a positive way, I would suggest "Comfort Ye" with the added harp, "Thou shalt break them" with its suspended cymbal roll, or "For unto us...".

[LeMartinPecheur]

Interesting too that he had earlier rejected the French recordings of Messiah because they hadn’t ‘grown up with the music in their blood’, but then chooses his final version because it’s not English.

Can't we be charitable and assume that he felt the Germans had 'got' the work and the French ones hadn't?

[Alison]

No mention of the Andrew Davis version.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No mention of the Andrew Davis version.

I'm not sure whether his earlier (Prout) version is available.

His later version with his own orchestration is rather odd. He was quite scathing about Mozart's additions, yet added some very prominent clarinet passages himself.

[Wolfram]

No mention of the Andrew Davis version.

Or Pinnock for that matter, which was David Vickers' top pick in this month's Gramophone Collection. Worth it just for John Tom's rendition of the Trumpet shall Sound alone.

On a point for detail. They both seemed quite certain this morning that Emma Kirkby was the soloist in 'I know that my redeemer liveth' on Hogwood's recording. The booklet however has Judith Nelson as the soprano.

[ardcarp]

On a point for detail. They both seemed quite certain this morning that Emma Kirkby was the soloist in 'I know that my redeemer liveth' on Hogwood's recording. The booklet however has Judith Nelson as the soprano.

It was unmistakably Emma K's voice in that aria.

https://www.discogs.com/release/4683114-Handel-Choir-Of-Christ-Church-Cathedral-OxfordAcademy-Of-Ancient-Music-Christopher-Hogwood-Messiah-A/image/SW1hZ2U6MTMxNzAzNTc=

If you zoom in on the record cover, you'll see both Nelson's and Kirkby's name. I used to have that LP somewhere....but can't lay my hands on it at the moment.

[LHC]

It was unmistakably Emma K's voice in that aria.

https://www.discogs.com/release/4683114-Handel-Choir-Of-Christ-Church-Cathedral-OxfordAcademy-Of-Ancient-Music-Christopher-Hogwood-Messiah-A/image/SW1hZ2U6MTMxNzAzNTc=

If you zoom in on the record cover, you'll see both Nelson's and Kirkby's name. I used to have that LP somewhere....but can't lay my hands on it at the moment.

According to the set’s booklet Judith Nelson is Soprano 1 and sings:

Rejoice Greatly, O Daughter Of Zion
He Shall Feed His Flock Like A Sheperd
But Thou Didst Not Leave His Soul In Hell
How Beautiful Are The Feet Of Them That Preach The Gospel Of Peace
I Know That My Redeemer Liveth

Emma Kirkby is Soprano 2 and sings:

But Who May Abide The Day Of His Coming?
Thou Art Gone Up On High
If God Be For Us

[Pulcinella]

According to the set’s booklet Judith Nelson is Soprano 1 and sings:

Rejoice Greatly, O Daughter Of Zion
He Shall Feed His Flock Like A Sheperd
But Thou Didst Not Leave His Soul In Hell
How Beautiful Are The Feet Of Them That Preach The Gospel Of Peace
I Know That My Redeemer Liveth

Emma Kirkby is Soprano 2 and sings:

But Who May Abide The Day Of His Coming?
Thou Art Gone Up On High
If God Be For Us

In both the 3CD (411 858-2) and 2CD (430 488-2) incarnations of this recording (different booklets).

Doesn't mean that the booklet information is right, of course.
We all know about fake news, don't we, to say nothing of recent revelations of fake nightingales.

[LHC]

In both the 3CD (411 858-2) and 2CD (430 488-2) incarnations of this recording (different booklets).

Doesn't mean that the booklet information is right, of course.
We all know about fake news, don't we, to say nothing of recent revelations of fake nightingales.

Indeed, but if the booklet is wrong, you would think the error might have been corrected at some point in the 40 years since it was first released.

[Lordgeous]

Suprisingly not a mention of SIR Malcolm Sargeant; historically many of us of a certain age must have grown up with one of his versions. Nevertheless an enjoyable BAL - and glad Sir Thomas got a lookin. As I've mentioned in another thread I believe his Hallelulia made it into the UK 'Hit Parade'! As a small aside I found many of the HIPP excerpts rather mannered. Oh, and I almost forgot to say "Not Long Enough". Not the Messiah but BAL!

[Keraulophone]

It was unmistakably Emma K's voice in that aria.

Sorry to carp, but just listening tells me it's definitely Judith Nelson's voice, which had a slightly more colourful tone and more conventional (if still slimline) vibrato than Emma Kirkby's at that time, whose voice had a bell-like quasi-boy treble-like quality all its own (and shines out in But who may abide).

https://youtu.be/b7-OyYvqIx0

[ardcarp]

Apologies to all. Mrs A and I were guzzling tea and biccies at the time. We were obviously mistaken! JN sang it very well...and at a sensible tempo. My old singing teacher always, rather rudely, referred to Isobel Baillie as 'that old cow', mainly in respect of the deadly slow tempo of I Know that my Redeemer liveth' which used to be a hit with an older generation. In fact one notable critic said (I can't remember who) that after IB's first two notes of the piece, you KNEW your redeemer lived! Actually, that tempo was de rigeur in those days, and IB didn't have an ultra operatic vibrato either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pebGi0eBEfE

[LeMartinPecheur]

In both the 3CD (411 858-2) and 2CD (430 488-2) incarnations of this recording (different booklets).

Doesn't mean that the booklet information is right, of course.
We all know about fake news, don't we, to say nothing of recent revelations of fake nightingales.

Against this aria the LP set says 'Soprano 1' which is Nelson. I haven't rechecked my impression but during the programme I was a teeny tad surprised - didn't feel it was Kirkby at her most Kirkbyesque!

[jonfan]

I think Mr A it was Sargent who said, when auditioning sopranos, that the listener had to be convinced of the truth by the first two notes. IB was a good example of that in his view.

PS. The opening blurb is the worst I've seen and inaccurate. A good chunk of the text is from the Book of Common Prayer.