BaL 16.04.22 - Handel: Messiah

[MickyD]

Hogwood still remains supreme for me, having grown up with that whole vintage era of Florilegium recordings. But I also like the Higginbottom version that LMP suggests - with all male voices, it's probably the most HIPP version you could have.

[Pulcinella]

I've listened to Janet Baker on my streaming service. How far back was that recording made? To be honest, in "O thou that tellest…” I would not have guessed she was the soloist – to my ears its not that different from a good modern day counter-tenor sound – not that I have much authority as to the latter. Although I suppose can see - hear - she is the singer who developed into the later Janet Baker at the established phase of her career.

Turning to “He was despised….” there is more indication – the phrasing, the timbre of her voice comes across in the longer and more expressive aria.

Thanks Pulcinella – but, on reflection, I’ll add these to my playlist and listen occasionally (rather than try to find the CD….) The Ambrosians sound far off – murky - and the performance lacks the “clean lines” I recall from the Davis. To me, Janet B is the appeal in that set. (I see that, of course, Mackerras recorded it later….). I’m driving a friend tomorrow, a great admirer of Janet, and I’ll play “he was despised to him on the car system….

(I have to stop myself buying CDs these days – I’m going through the trauma of large scale book reduction, and truth to tell, I should weed out CDs after that……)

Very little information on the EMI Studio CD I have (which I must listen to again in light of your comments): just says P1967, Digital remastering P1987.

It's available as a download from Presto, so perhaps Alpie's list needs amending:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8184578--handel-messiah

[Darloboy]

Very little information on the EMI Studio CD I have (which I must listen to again in light of your comments): just says P1967, Digital remastering P1987.

It's available as a download from Presto, so perhaps Alpie's list needs amending:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...handel-messiah

Recorded Kingsway Hall, 29, 30 VI, 13, 15, 16 VII & 6, 8, 9 VIII 1966 according to my CD.

[cloughie]

Recorded Kingsway Hall, 29, 30 VI, 13, 15, 16 VII & 6, 8, 9 VIII 1966 according to my CD.

First UK release on LP, HMV HQS1052-4 in a boxed set

The Colin Davis set on Philips was released around the same time - both sets were the first I remember having ornamentation compared to the older more tradiotional Boult and Sargent sets. Maybe HIPPs were beginning to wiggle!

[Barbirollians]

First UK release on LP, HMV HQS1052-4 in a boxed set

The Colin Davis set on Philips was released around the same time - both sets were the first I remember having ornamentation compared to the older more tradiotional Boult and Sargent sets.

I was very taken by the Pinnock when it first came out and my cassettes worn out were replaced by the CDs. I also have that live Barbirolli , the CfP Sargent both of which are events !

I did have a tape of the highlights of the Mackerras recording but not sure where that is - it contained an extraordinarily beautiful performance of " I know that my redeemer liveth " by the late Elizabeth Harwood that my grandmother loved and which we played at her funeral.

I find it hard to top Ferrier in " He was despised " and O thou that tellest" no matter how inauthentic .

[Lordgeous]

I don't normally list highlight collections, as these are unlikely to be discussed on the programme.

Sure! I only mentioned it as others were mentioning 'Highlight' selections from other full sets.

[Pulcinella]

...
Thanks Pulcinella – but, on reflection, I’ll add these to my playlist and listen occasionally (rather than try to find the CD….) The Ambrosians sound far off – murky - and the performance lacks the “clean lines” I recall from the Davis. To me, Janet B is the appeal in that set. (I see that, of course, Mackerras recorded it later….). I’m driving a friend tomorrow, a great admirer of Janet, and I’ll play “he was despised to him on the car system….

I wouldn't say murky, but terribly 'refined' (refayned?) pronounciation!
I now need to listen to some of the Davis.

First UK release on LP, HMV HQS1052-4 in a boxed set

The Colin Davis set on Philips was released around the same time - both sets were the first I remember having ornamentation compared to the older more tradiotional Boult and Sargent sets. Maybe HIPPs were beginning to wiggle!

Robert Tear's in the extracts on the highlights disc (Comfort ye, and Every valley) is still extraordinary to my ears, and must have been quite unusual back then! Perhaps OK in performance but not for repeated listening, for me, anyway.

[LHC]

I have Gardiner, Pinnock, Hogwood, Colin Davis (his later LSO Live recording), Andrew Davis and Marc Minkowski.

Of those I would only recommend the Gardiner, Pinnock and Hogwood. I bought the LSO Live recording as a reminder of the concert as I was there, but his first recording with the LSO is clearly the best of his three recordings. Andrew Davis in Toronto is very old-fashioned, but was a freebie. Minkowski is good in parts, but is too variable in quality to be a front runner.

My favourite is the Gardiner, mainly because it was the recording the introduced me properly to Handel and to HIPP performances. I was given it as a present when it first came out on LP and was a revelation to me. Everything about it was thrilling. I hadn't realised before how exciting Handel's music could be, and the sound of the orchestra was so different to anything I had heard before. I remember going back to University and a friend playing me their tape of Messiah conducted by Beecham. After the Gardiner, it seemed so slow and turgid; at times it seemed as if the performers were wading through mud.

[rauschwerk]

I was brought up on Beecham's 1947 recording on 4 LPs with a talk by Beecham explaining his approach to the work. He had Elsie Suddaby, whose singing I loved, Marjorie Thomas at the start of her career, Heddle Nash (not at his best here) and Trevor Antony. I snapped up a CD transfer when it appeared briefly 20 years ago, and I must say that some of it is still worth a listen, even though rather old-fashioned in approach. Beecham used a small chorus for many of the numbers.

The Colin Davis version was nonetheless a revelation to me. The Mackerras version was due to be released in the same month, but EMI postponed it. I have heard Hogwood and once had Pinnock's version on tape. I liked it a lot, but could not get used to the 15 minute version of 'He was despised'.

[Lordgeous]

Regarding Beecham's later RCA version, notable if only for his 'Halelulia' making it into the pop top 20! Can't remember what number? I also remember a story (true or apophrical?) where Beecham was unhappy with an aria (bass?). He decided to redo it transposed to another key. Either the orchestra was flown back to America or the soloist to UK to re-record the aria. Whichever, an expensive expedition. Sometime after, Sir Thomas reviewed the recordings: he preferred the original! Can anyone verify this story? I remember hearing the whole recording for the first time, cymbals and all! One feature for which it retains my interest is the inclusion of the wonderful Jennifer Vyvyan, lost to us too early. Her voice could send shivers down my spine. Listen to her brief contribution to Britten's 'Cantata Academica' and of course her wonderful 'Turn of the Screw'.

[Braunschlag]

Regarding Beecham's later RCA version, notable if only for his 'Halelulia' making it into the pop top 20! Can't remember what number? I also remember a story (true or apophrical?) where Beecham was unhappy with an aria (bass?). He decided to redo it transposed to another key. Either the orchestra was flown back to America or the soloist to UK to re-record the aria. Whichever, an expensive expedition. Sometime after, Sir Thomas reviewed the recordings: he preferred the original! Can anyone verify this story? I remember hearing the whole recording for the first time, cymbals and all! One feature for which it retains my interest is the inclusion of the wonderful Jennifer Vyvyan, lost to us too early. Her voice could send shivers down my spine. Listen to her brief contribution to Britten's 'Cantata Academica' and of course her wonderful 'Turn of the Screw'.

Is that aria story in Culshaw’s ‘Putting the record straight’? I’m sure it was one of those recordings made during the Decca/RCA partnership days.
I ‘discovered’ the Beecham around 20 years ago and it’s been my favoured version ever since. That Hallelujah chorus is way OTT but still sends shivers down this spine.
Arthur Butterworth wrote an interesting column about it on Musicweb, a very personal perspective which does throw a few barbs but I always respected his opinions (I knew him well in his later years).
(http://www.musicweb-international.co...urestsound.htm).
Beecham won’t even make the shortlist, I realise that, but it is something I’m rather glad they committed to record.

[mikealdren]

I'm still very fond of the Sargent/Huddersfield version, wonderfully old fashioned, a real period piece.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm still very fond of the Sargent/Huddersfield version, wonderfully old fashioned, a real period piece.

Sargent recorded the work at least three times with the Huddersfield Choral Society. The 78rpm and the stereo versions are the ones currently available? But the mono only LP version appears nowhere these days.
Mackerras’s allegedly Mozart version, with the Huddersfield CS, sung in English, is essentially a Mozart/Prout/Sargent rehash, making the traditional cuts and using Handel’s version of The Trumpet Shall Sound.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Is that aria story in Culshaw’s ‘Putting the record straight’?

No. The only soloist story there (as far as I can see) is Beecham's rooted objection to Joan Sutherland in the first few days of recording, solved by the late signing of Jennifer Vyvyan as replacement (pp212-3). After recounting this, Culshaw states, "There was no more trouble with Messiah." So no scope for any TB-desired re-recordings it seems.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Is that aria story in Culshaw’s ‘Putting the record straight’? I’m sure it was one of those recordings made during the Decca/RCA partnership days.
I ‘discovered’ the Beecham around 20 years ago and it’s been my favoured version ever since. That Hallelujah chorus is way OTT but still sends shivers down this spine.
Arthur Butterworth wrote an interesting column about it on Musicweb, a very personal perspective which does throw a few barbs but I always respected his opinions (I knew him well in his later years).
(http://www.musicweb-international.co...urestsound.htm).
Beecham won’t even make the shortlist, I realise that, but it is something I’m rather glad they committed to record.

I read the MusicWeb piece and thought I should revisit this (after so many years) having had the highlights as my very first vinyl record as a child. Cymbals in the Hallelujah Chorus!!

An interesting experience, but I'll still value the Colin Davis, my preference.