BaL 19.03.22 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 9 in D minor

[Goon525]

Just listened again to Bernstein/NYPO. His version won't win BaL but I still enjoyed the ride.

Only because Edward Seckerson isn’t doing it.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I find it difficult to work out quite what you are treating with here. Are the "various bods" arguing for the drafts of just the first 3-movements (bearing in mind Bruckner's penchant for revision) or one of the several putative 4-movement 'completions'? If the latter, which of them? As to Michelangelo's David, in what way is it incomplete? Is it the lack of a fig leaf you are thinking of?

I was referring to the putative four movement completions, not the 'three-movement draft' if you want to put it that way; maybe we should now call all of his symphonies drafts, as no doubt given time he'd have produced many more versions of each without any being definitive. (In his honour, some of those infinite monkeys will be churning out Bruckner symphonies alongside the more conventional product.)

[RichardB]

maybe we should now call all of his symphonies drafts

Of course Bruckner wasn't the only composer given to revising and recomposing his work; Mahler, Hindemith, Boulez and many others had the same compulsion - as Paul Valéry put it, a work of art is never completed, only abandoned.

[Bryn]

I was referring to the putative four movement completions, not the 'three-movement draft' if you want to put it that way; maybe we should now call all of his symphonies drafts, as no doubt given time he'd have produced many more versions of each without any being definitive. (In his honour, some of those infinite monkeys will be churning out Bruckner symphonies alongside the more conventional product.)

There is a major difference between returning to an already completed and performed work to revising movements of q work one is currently working on. It is possible that, had he managed to complete the final movement in the draft, he would have found it unnecessary to change much, or anything. in the earlier movements. The same applies to the first movement of Mahler's 10th. That, too, given Mahler's working methods, should be considered as a draft upon which he had done much more work than those which followed it, but remained a draft, notwithstanding its initial through-composition.

[Keraulophone]

has anyone done a completion of those 'incomplete' works such as Michelangelo's David?

Aphrodite of Milo, better known as the Venus de Milo (Louvre), created sometime between 130 and 100 BC. This reconstruction is based on Adolf Furtwängler’s [sic] proposed restoration sketch from 1895, incorporating statue fragments found at the original site.



.

[Alison]

Agree with the Abbado comments. Loved by many, that recording has never done it for me.

[Barbirollians]

This is looking like a cheap BAL as I already own the whole shortlist except for the Barenboim.

[mathias broucek]

I missed the start of the programme. Which Karajan version is this?

[Alison]

I missed the start of the programme. Which Karajan version is this?

The DG with the wing cover

[mathias broucek]

This is looking like a cheap BAL as I already own the whole shortlist except for the Barenboim.

All except Haitink for me! But every one of the recordings he played is worth hearing!

[Alison]

HvK’s were the extracts I didn’t want to end.

[mathias broucek]

The DG with the wing cover

Agreed - terrific performance. There's also a not-always-easy-to-find Vienna Karajan that's even more intense. Many people prefer his earlier 1966 Berlin recording to the "angel wings" one from the complete set. The 1966 is certainly excellent but I've never done a comparison

[jonfan]

A glorious symphony open to many wonderful interpretations. The Abbado was dismissed very quickly but that is the one for me as it was his last public performance and one that Rattle thought had a transcendental quality. The 1944 wartime performance I can’t listen to because of where and when it was performed.
A pity ‘Interpretations on Record’ can’t be resurrected where it’s not a competition but detailed differences expertly analysed can be enjoyed.

[Petrushka]

Agreed - terrific performance. There's also a not-always-easy-to-find Vienna Karajan that's even more intense. Many people prefer his earlier 1966 Berlin recording to the "angel wings" one from the complete set. The 1966 is certainly excellent but I've never done a comparison

This is the live 1976 VPO/Karajan recording. Expensive but worth it https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-9-...al%2C62&sr=1-4

The Scherzo is much tougher, to its advantage, in the BPO 1976 than it is in the 1966.

[Bryn]

Strangely, the opted for Giulini is one recording of the first three movements that I do not have. I will listen tomorrow night before deciding whether or not to add it to the many already to hand. I found it a little disappointing that the only performing version of the filled out sketches of the final movement considered was the SPCM. I recall Rob Cowan being more impressed with one by Carragan. I missed the first 10 minutes or so, this morning. Were any of the Joichum recordings paid attention to? How about Young or Blomstedt?