BaL 12.03.22 - Schubert: String Quintet in C major (D. 956)

[RichardB]

What do you make of her comment, near the start, that 'Schubert clearly wrote this for performing not for listening'. (a) I have no idea what she meant and (b) what is the point of any music if not for listening?

Bearing in mind that I probably have my "head in a fashionably art-music cloud", to use your words, surely music is generally written for performing and listening (and this applies to John Cage's 4'33" as much as to anything else).

[duncan]

What do you make of her comment, near the start, that 'Schubert clearly wrote this for performing not for listening'. (a) I have no idea what she meant and (b) what is the point of any music if not for listening?

Chamber music has been called "the music of friends". I imagine Prof. Loges was envisaging the usual practice in the 19th century and, less common in the 21st, one that still happens very close to my home. Three or four friends meet once a month in one of their houses (Covid permitting) to play through a piece. This brings them great joy. There is no audience listening, unless you count partners hiding in the kitchen. They have not yet essayed the Schubert Quintet because they only have one cellist, though attempts are being made to grow another.

A pedant might say musicians listen as well as perform and a pedant's pedant might further suggest an audience are not passive but active contributors to a performance but I think we can give Prof. Loges a pass for not disappearing down this rabbit hole.

[cloughie]

Bearing in mind that I probably have my "head in a fashionably art-music cloud", to use your words, surely music is generally written for performing and listening (and this applies to John Cage's 4'33" as much as to anything else).

I always think that Cage was taking the p too far!

[Bryn]

I always think that Cage was taking the p too far!

Oh dear, How sad. Never mind.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I always think that Cage was taking the p too far!

Your coat awaits.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Your coat awaits.

Presumably a coat that gullible people can’t see?

[Bryn]

Presumably a coat that gullible people can’t see?

Like this one:

Surprising how many fail to see through the accretions on the intervening centuries.

[richardfinegold]

Perhaps BAL should do a program devoted to 4'33.
Back to Schubert, was the winner L'Archibudelli? No one ever states this and there is no "highlighted" result.
Presto does not feature the Archibudelli Quintet version as a separate download. One has to down the entire 5 hour album.

[Bryn]

Perhaps BAL should do a program devoted to 4'33.
Back to Schubert, was the winner L'Archibudelli? No one ever states this and there is no "highlighted" result.
Presto does not feature the Archibudelli Quintet version as a separate download. One has to down the entire 5 hour album.

It's there on the Record Review listing. However, it is misleading to call it a L'Archibudelli CD. That name is not used on the disc or its packaging, as mentioned earlier in this thread (#25). There are also some references to available CD options, earlier in this thread, including one at bargain price.

As to 4'33", there are less than half a dozen commercial recordings to choose from. That by Frank Zappa is my favourite. That from Amadinda, on Hungaroto,n takes an interesting approach, using field recordings around Budapest.

[RichardB]

The pseudo-Archibudelli recording was my only one for years, but I found the Festetics/W Kuijken better in every respect.

[HighlandDougie]

No one ever states this and there is no "highlighted" result.

Not quite - see post #24. I swithered about including the names of the recommended versions as I wasn't sure that there wouldn't be forumites who wanted to listen to the programme but without knowing the "winner(s)" at that relatively early stage after the broadcast, although the BBC supposedly puts details somewhere on the bafflingly difficult to navigate BBC website - or is it just me being thick (probably).

PS Love Roger N's flares in that programme from YouTube posted above by Bryn. Very heavy metal band member ....

[Bryn]

Not quite - see post #24. I swithered about including the names of the recommended versions as I wasn't sure that there wouldn't be forumites who wanted to listen to the programme but without knowing the "winner(s)" at that relatively early stage after the broadcast, although the BBC supposedly puts details somewhere on the bafflingly difficult to navigate BBC website - or is it just me being thick (probably).

PS Love Roger N's flares in that programme from YouTube posted above by Bryn. Very heavy metal band member ....

Those were the days.

[ardcarp]

Chamber music has been called "the music of friends". I imagine Prof. Loges was envisaging the usual practice in the 19th century and, less common in the 21st, one that still happens very close to my home. Three or four friends meet once a month in one of their houses (Covid permitting) to play through a piece.

That's lovely, and the same happened in my house when I was a kid.
But I guess they were listening to what they were playing as well as me; not to mention people in the kitchen. I can't believe that, for instance, Haydn's SQs were written just for the players. OK, the occasional Esterhaz person may have joined in with a baryton, but I guess they were played mainly by court musicians for social courtly occasions. I'm happy to concur with the notion that 'the audience' didn't sit with rapt attention as do modern audiences. But having a top-rate composer in residence probably compares with today's kudos gained by owning a Lamborghini. And in the same way, he'd certainly be flaunted.

[Beresford]

I am not sure I am in tune with the Ebene - I found the end of the finale rather aggressive for my taste- and I felt the same about their recent raved about Mendelssohn disc. I found this BAL dull , too much Mr McGregor and I tend to find Natasha Loges contributions forgettable.

I agree - too aggressive for me. It reminds me of auditioning hifi, when the equipment revealing the most detail is preferred at the time, but regretted later as hard to live with.
The Tetzlaff recording I found very attractive - a more measured performance that allowed Schubert's sweet/sour passages to shine through.

[RichardB]

I can't believe that, for instance, Haydn's SQs were written just for the players.

It's well known, for example, that his op.71 and op.74 quartets were written for relatively large concert audiences in London, and his earlier chamber music was published and performed widely, not just at the court where he was working. Returning to Schubert, various of his quartets were performed in public concerts by Ignaz Schuppanzigh's quartet, beginning in 1824 with the A minor Quartet D804, so it would be reasonable for him to expect his Quintet to be played in a comparable context. From John A Gingerich's 2014 book Schubert's Beethoven Project:

From the beginning of Schuppanzigh's series in the summer of 1823 right through the end of the 1828 season he frequently programmed string quintets, even though he initially billed his concerts as "consisting of the quartets of the most famous masters." The quintet he programmed most often was Beethoven's op. 29, whose eight performances between 1823 and 1828 matched the number of performances of the most frequently presented quartet, Beethoven's op. 74. Schuppanzigh programmed Mozart's quintets K 593, K 516, and K 406 almost as frequently - on average at least once each season. Because of the prominence the relatively small supply of quintets enjoyed in Schuppanzigh's concerts, a new quintet made a better candidate for a premiere than another new quartet - and by 1828 Schubert had already written two quartets that continued to languish unperformed. A similar calculation, to contribute new works in the comparatively scarcer genres programmed by Schuppanzigh - works other than quartets - had already paid off for Schubert the previous year, when Schuppanzigh had premiered the B flat Piano Trio D 898, and finally, after a three-year delay, the Octet. So in the late summer or early fall of 1828 Schubert wrote a quintet.