BaL 8.01.22 - Prokofiev: Symphony No 5 in B-flat major

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder what the hipp view is of Russian sounding brass surely that was the sound at the time the symphony was written!

Yes, but that doesn't mean the composer was necessarily bothered about the playing style. Take Elgar, or example. His earliest recordings ooze with string portamento, but this is massively reduced in the later ones under his baton.

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, the HIPP view is that there is no HIPP view, on account of the known fact that Prokofiev didn't write his music specifically for Russian orchestras to play.

I found the comments on Litton's recording quite convincing and look forward to listening to the whole thing, even though as I've said it isn't really a favourite of mine, having found myself very sympathetic to Marina's emphasis on being able to hear everything that's happening at every moment.

Didn't she consider Karabits? That's my go-to for the hear-everything... (see above...)....and more sonically immediate than the space-and-to-spare Bergen...(IIRC, will revisit...)

[cloughie]

Yes, but that doesn't mean the composer was necessarily bothered about the playing style. Take Elgar, or example. His earliest recordings ooze with string portamento, but this is massively reduced in the later ones under his baton.

Yes I remember Barenboim’s 1st recording of Elgar 2 in the 70s being heavily criticised for overdoing the portamento! Hecwas modelling his interpretation on Elgar’s own recordings.
However I would have thought the sound of the instruments of the era is part and parcel of the sound expected by the Prokofiev in his work or maybe now the modern orchestral sound of big works by composers as recent as 80ish years ago is unchanged to now and therefore therefore hipp proof!

[silvestrione]

This was a very informative and intriguing BAL IMV, with lots of extracts, introduced with knowledge and insight. There was of course one very Russian performance by the Bolshoi orchestra. Dismissed because of its sound, which I found quite good!

(Disappointing that A McG now feels he can intervene a bit, clearly wishing to steer the reviewer in certain directions: though at least in his final comment at the end he was positive about the Karajan -- to make up?)

[RichardB]

There was of course one very Russian performance by the Bolshoi orchestra. Dismissed because of its sound, which I found quite good!

Yes, although I was listening in the car so I have very little idea of which recordings were better, I found the except very promising.

[mikealdren]

An interesting review with plenty of versions considered for once although no reason were offered for why most of them didn't make the cut, Rattle, for instance, sounded very good. Was Gergiev mentioned, not sure I heard his name?

[Goon525]

Neither Karabits nor Gergiev got a mention, as I recall. And this wasn’t one of those BaLs where a couple of minutes were spent discussing why unillustrated versions had fallen by the wayside.

[MickyD]

Yes, although I was listening in the car so I have very little idea of which recordings were better, I found the except very promising.

I have just heard the programme on good quality headphones, and I must say that I couldn't find any fault with the Bolshoi recording.

[Barbirollians]

Has the Melodiya set been deleted?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-.../dp/B004FSJPG8 Ouch! $500 from amazon.com

Amazon tells me I bought that in 2012 ! I thought it was about five years ago . JLW recommended as I recall - it’s great especially the Fourth and Sixth to my ears.

[Maclintick]

Yup, apart from the (surprising?) surprise reaction to the high ranking of HvK, Andrew also almost undermined Marina’s final choice by suggesting that the Bergen Phil didn’t sound very Russian. Whether that’s fair comment or not, was it an appropriate comment?

He did seem overly-insistent on questioning whether MF-W thought the contenders sounded sufficiently Russian in orchestral timbre, an aspect glossed over when discussing the near-contemporaneous DSCH Leningrad with Ed Seckerson few weeks ago. Excellent BAL, otherwise. MF-W is good value.

[Lordgeous]

Did AM say Litton with the Berlin Phil as winner. Shoudn't that be the Bergen Phil?

[cloughie]

Has the Melodiya set been deleted?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-.../dp/B004FSJPG8 Ouch! $500 from amazon.com

Tell you what Bryn - you buy, burn to CDRs and send them on to me!

[LeMartinPecheur]

He did seem overly-insistent on questioning whether MF-W thought the contenders sounded sufficiently Russian in orchestral timbre, an aspect glossed over when discussing the near-contemporaneous DSCH Leningrad with Ed Seckerson few weeks ago.

Aren't you setting this up so BaL and AM lose both ways? Too many queries on Russian sonority today, not enough on Shoster 7? In the latter there was plenty said about the Russian brass sound in the Mravinsky, which I rushed to buy and now revel in for at last making the 1st mov's silly little jaunty theme build to a truly scary, nay horrifying, climax (I await the Bernstein to see whether he does it as well) and that brass throughout

Excellent BAL, otherwise. MF-W is good value.

She is indeed, on several recent showings.

[Bryn]

Tell you what Bryn - you buy, burn to CDRs and send them on to me!

Why would I want to buy them again? I 'pre-ordered' the set just prior to its UK release to replace my fire-damaged EMI LP set I'm sure one could find a dodgy Russian download site to get them from.

[Maclintick]

Aren't you setting this up so BaL and AM lose both ways? Too many queries on Russian sonority today, not enough on Shoster 7? In the latter there was plenty said about the Russian brass sound in the Mravinsky

The searing intensity of the Leningrad PO trumpets in the DSCH 7 BAL was mentioned in passing as a matter of historical interest, but AMcG didn't make Russian brass sound a totem of HiPP-ness as he did today, attempting to steer MF-W towards a Russian version when it didn't seem to be an issue for him in for DSCH 7.