Originally posted by Bryn
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Didn’t enjoy then Bryn? -
Alsop's 5th offered a different perspective, perhaps reflecting some of the 'war' aspects referred to by jlw. However, when one considers that the very same composer recycled some of his Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution into his Ode to the End of the War, a blazing celebration, perhaps the 5th was intended as a more circumspect reflection of that war. Jurowski handily coupled the 5th with the Ode on his Pentatone SACD, though I think Rozhestvensky made a better fist of both. The Alsop 5th would not make my shortlist but neither am I sorry to have listened to it.Originally posted by cloughie View PostComment
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Sadly nla - last seen on an EMI Red Line issue but the Kletzki is excellent IMO.Comment
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From the first bars of the CBSO/Rattle Prokofiev 5th (EMI Original CD with aptly abstract cover art by Andrzej Dudzinski), you know you’re listening to something very special. I’ve been scrutinising Karajan and Karabits but this is on another level for expressive range and life, whether in tone-colour, micro-dynamics, or flexibility of phrase and pace. Everything counts in large and small amounts… Infinitely detailed and alive in every bar!
The 1st movement can be a tricky one to get right - Karajan for example is rather too steady, even static, creating a monumentalised effect of little variety. All about That Orchestra, rather than the music.
Rattle’s Tempi are more variable here than in many other recordings and the counterpoints so clear, bringing great urgency to the main development and the approach to the coda. Which is stunningly powerful! (But exceptional in its control).
The extremely wide dynamic range of this recording (1992, Murray/Clements), from very soft to very loud indeed in a very spacious, present acoustic, was typical of many CBSO issues of the time and was never better exemplified. Rattle knows exactly how the music should go, and realises his very precise vision perfectly on his wonderful partners-in-sound.
Each movement is marvellously done: the detail more vividly characterised than usual from humour to mania to searing tragedy, but contributing even more to the clearly-shaped flow and structure. The very individuality of the reading serves this music perfectly. Just listen to those virtuoso Birmingham strings slashing across the winds/brass in the final section of the scherzo!
A CBSO/Rattle classic from when they were at their remarkable peak, this has to be on anyone’s short-shortlist, and if you were only going to have one Prokofiev 5th, this would be a very good one to have!Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 24-12-21, 14:42.Comment
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So, worth the £2.90 I've just paid for a "pre-loved" copy of the original issue?Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostComment
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I would say to anyone who buys the physical disc (even if, especially if, they do not stream music) - just go and get it, you won't regret it! And play it as loud as you can...!Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
But the Art is truly a pleasure in itself....
Those CBSO recordings whether in Warwick Arts or Symphony Hall, were a creation of dedication on so many levels, musical, engineering, artistic....one of the great partnerships and so much more...Comment
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As you well know we don’t agree on everything but in this you are absolutely spot on! It was a special time and a special relationship between conductor and orchestra!Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostComment
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How does one know that you're getting the original issue (and is it important -- is one CD issue of it better than another...)?Originally posted by HighlandDougie View PostComment
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The CD number/sleeve design are the original issue - as cited by Jayne above. Not at all important except for the fact that the later re-issue is part of a 2 CD set which (spluttering noises at this point) would have cost me £20. The horror, the horror, the expense, the expense! Remember that, like all good Scots, I like to mind the bawbees. Actually, that’s nonsense or I wouldn’t have been buying what will probably be my 15th or so recording of the symphony. Otiose, I know.Originally posted by silvestrione View PostComment
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The originals usually had much more individual artwork (like the Donohoe Bartok Concertos, with the swirling keyboards over a red ground) but you can tell by the dates on the inlay. The first edition will only have the one.Originally posted by silvestrione View Post
Sadly, the sound can vary across reissues, even where remastering isn't involved. I once compared the Vogt/Rattle Beethoven on the EMI Red Line (which I wasn't happy with from the start) and the hastily-ordered original release...... the latter was fresher, clearer, more realistic. The Red Line was sent back. The same thing happened with the Debussy Images album (but with a different reissue).The original also had the advantage of that lovely De Chirico cover. Some of the worst sound I ever heard on Rattle reissues was on the HMV Classics rereleases, the Jeux especially. Noticably lacking space, presence, resolution.
I know these things won't matter to everyone.
Those 1980s/90s Rattle EMI Angels are among the best CDs I ever heard; the Ousset Ravel (Pastel colourwash) is another example. I set about buying them up a few years back. So long as you are happy with the one you get.......
But some of us have the curse-blessing of obsession...Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 25-12-21, 18:50.Comment
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That's definitely a curse, as I found out in the LP era.Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostComment
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With its vast tonal resources, massive climaxes, full, rich strings and that sheen of technical proficiency one often finds in the best German Radio Orchestras, The Gürzenich-Orchester-Köln/Kitajenko (from the complete cycle, Phoenix CDs) sounds rather like an improved Karajan, better recorded and better, perhaps a little more flexibly played.
Perhaps one to move onto, if you like the grand approach and find HvK hard to surpass. I could still do with more dynamic/tempo gradation in (i) though, also preferring a leaner sonic profile in this music generally (eg Karabits, Rattle).
So the scherzo is hardly the wittiest or most acerbic, the trio noticeably slow in part one - but with seductively suave strings in its second “shining Cadillac” idea (Ed Seckerson, Gramophone); then the puffer-train leadback is oh-so-elegant, the slow departure of the Orient Express - but the accelerating rhythmic brass/wind interplay is still well-defined and pert enough to make the listener smile. But in the adagio, the agogic slowing for the main climax is a little crudely judged.
We’re a long way from Rattle’s vivacity and volatility, but there is the compensation of the sheer orchestral pedigree.
A beautifully played, opulent-sounding, very consistent performance then, emphasising grandeur and beauty, but one that suffers from a lack of dynamic subtlety (not many true pps, tends to get a bit too loud, a bit too quickly) and leaves me craving more expressive variety, more bar-to-bar edge and earthinesss.Comment
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I've just returned from the rather wet wastes of Scotland's North West Highlands to find the CD on the doormat. The 5th Symphony is fine ("leaner" and a bit swifter than the HvK whom I personally find unconvincing in the work) but what I really like is the performance of the 'Scythian Suite'. Played very loud as recommended and with the new (Scottish) sub-woofer adding to the visceral impact, it almost convinces me about the worth of the piece. Wonderful CBSO woodwind and brass.Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostComment
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Noting earlier comments re the BBCs apparent preference for reviewers who do not contribute to Gramophone, I see that the current edition has a review of Tchaikovsky's Pathétique by none other than Marina Frolovla-Walker!Last edited by CallMePaul; 04-01-22, 14:21.Comment
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