BaL 1.01.22 - Mozart: Piano Concerto no 20 in D minor K466

[Bryn]

A long time since I read it!

More than half a century, in my case.

[cloughie]

More than half a century, in my case.

I think 55 for me - so what’s a HIB then?

[gurnemanz]

I do enjoy Bilson/JEG but as a fortepiano version I prefer Tan/Norrington which was my first CD of K466 back in the 90s and which I still find quite bracing.

[CallMePaul]

I do enjoy Bilson/JEG but as a fortepiano version I prefer Tan/Norrington which was my first CD of K466 back in the 90s and which I still find quite bracing.

I'd forgotten that I had the Tan/Norrington, as it is stored away from my main CD collection for some reason. Interstingly, I note that Tan seems to have switched completely to the modern piano now.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'd forgotten that I had the Tan/Norrington, as it is stored away from my main CD collection for some reason. Interstingly, I note that Tan seems to have switched completely to the modern piano now.

Well, of all "original" instruments, I feel the Cristofoti cimbalo di piano e forte is the one I like to hear the least. Maybe Tan, like Schiff and others, feel the same way.

[Barbirollians]

The Pollini/ Bohm 19 and 23 has arrived 91p plus postage - looking forward to listening later.

[Bryn]

Well, of all "original" instruments, I feel the Cristofoti cimbalo di piano e forte is the one I like to hear the least. Maybe Tan, like Schiff and others, feel the same way.

I take it you intended Cristofori. I understand that J.S. Bach. was rather unimpressed with those instruments, too. Schiff, of course, has revised his opinion on historical instruments, as witnessed by his concerts and recording of the Brahms Piano Concertos.

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, of all "original" instruments, I feel the Cristofoti cimbalo di piano e forte is the one I like to hear the least. Maybe Tan, like Schiff and others, feel the same way.

Cristofori died in 1731. His designs date from around 1700 or a little later. Hardly relevant to the present discussion.

Andras Schiff's most recent (widely-acclaimed) recordings of Schubert's Piano Music (for ECM) were recorded on a Brodmann from ca. 1820, and Schiff goes into great detail in the notes ("Confessions of a Convert") regarding the design of the instrument and its suitability for the music. His equally outstanding Brahms Piano Concerti with the OAE were played on an 1859 Bluthner, about which Schiff offers another, highly insightful essay regarding the keyboard design, Brahms' various keyboard preferences, contemporary orchestral forces and the smaller acoustics they were usually played in.

Those listeners here who keep offering caricatural dismissal of "fortepianos" need to do their homework, update their awareness of recordings and accept that the development of the piano is a continuous historical timeline (the first Bosendorfers were made in the late-1820s, in the former Brodmann workshop), with no sudden crude gulf before the modern Steinways or Yamahas etc were supposed to sweep everything aside. As I've already said the recent Brahms Violin Sonatas from Pritchin and Emelyanychev feature an 1875 Steinway with a 1725 Boquay Violin, and very beautifully balanced they sound. (Not to mention being among the most musically exceptional ever recorded...)

[Barbirollians]

Cristofori died in 1731. His designs date from around 1700 or a little later. Hardly relevant to the present discussion.

Andras Schiff's most recent (widely-acclaimed) recordings of Schubert's Piano Music (for ECM) were recorded on a Brodmann from ca. 1820, and Schiff goes into great detail in the notes ("Confessions of a Convert") regarding the design of the instrument and its suitability for the music. His equally outstanding Brahms Piano Concerti with the OAE were played on an 1859 Bluthner, about which Schiff offers another, highly insightful essay regarding the keyboard design, Brahms' various keyboard preferences, contemporary orchestral forces and the smaller acoustics they were usually played in.

Those listeners here who keep offering caricatural dismissal of "fortepianos" need to do their homework, update their awareness of recordings and accept that the development of the piano is a continuous historical timeline (the first Bosendorfers were made in the late-1820s, in the former Brodmann workshop), with no sudden crude gulf before the modern Steinways or Yamahas etc were supposed to sweep everything aside. As I've already said the recent Brahms Violin Sonatas from Pritchin and Emelyanychev feature an 1875 Steinway with a 1725 Boquay Violin, and very beautifully balanced they sound. (Not to mention being among the most musically exceptional ever recorded...)

Not sure if this is directed at me but I do not do caricature dismissals of fortepiano or early pianos in general . As I pointed out in my first post I much preferred Brautigam’s fp to that of Bilson and frankly also his much more characterful performance.

Although I did not quite get the rave reviews for Schiff’s Brahms concertos interesting as they were - other favourites for me this year have been the Brahms and Schumann La Gaia Scienzarecords you recommended and Howard Shelley’s outstanding Chopin sonatas on a piano of Chopin’s time .

Listening to PolliniBohm K488 is a bit of a cream cake performance - gorgeous as a one off but a bit much for everyday . Hippites beware .

[jayne lee wilson]

Not sure if this is directed at me but I do not do caricature dismissals of fortepiano or early pianos in general . As I pointed out in my first post I much preferred Brautigam’s fp to that of Bilson and frankly also his much more characterful performance.

Although I did not quite get the rave reviews for Schiff’s Brahms concertos interesting as they were - other favourites for me this year have been the Brahms and Schumann La Gaia Scienzarecords you recommended and Howard Shelley’s outstanding Chopin sonatas on a piano of Chopin’s time .

Listening to PolliniBohm K488 is a bit of a cream cake performance - gorgeous as a one off but a bit much for everyday . Hippites beware .

I was responding to EA and more generally, and thinking of your earlier comment (and previous discussions): "Brautigam is very fine but some of the other fortepiano recordings of these works have the knitting needle sound like Bilson/Gardiner".

Knitting-Needles? Really?...In the fine old FoR3-fp-comment-tradition of - honky-tonk, sparky, etc etc....

Still we've found some common ground here, and I'm very glad you've enjoyed the Gaia Scienza. If you can take the freedom of the interpretive approach (always faithful though, never wilful) I would again recommend to you those Brahms Violin Sonatas from the Young Russians....they are truly exceptional...
But even if you don't fall in love, I can't think any time listening to them would be wasted. Quite the reverse.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Listening to PolliniBohm K488 is a bit of a cream cake performance - gorgeous as a one off but a bit much for everyday .

It's an everyday version for me. Difficult to better in my view.

But this isn't the concerto being reviewed.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Knitting-Needles? Really?...In the fine old FoR3-fp-comment-tradition of - honky-tonk, sparky, etc etc....

That may be an exaggerated view, but not without some substance. It was my reaction to one of the examples in Beethoven Cello Sonata BaL.

(But if Jane Austen called it a pianoforte, I shall call it the same. The term "fortepiano" was rarely used in contemporary literature.)

[Goon525]

It's an everyday version for me. Difficult to better in my view.

Phew, not just me then. But, on the other hand, the Schiff Brahms concertos are my personal record of the year.

[Bryn]

That may be an exaggerated view, but not without some substance. It was my reaction to one of the examples in Beethoven Cello Sonata BaL.

(But if Jane Austen called it a pianoforte, I shall call it the same. The term "fortepiano" was rarely used in contemporary literature.)

And there was I, thinking we were living in the 21st Century, when the term had come to serve a useful purpose in differentiating between wooden- and iron-framed instruments.

[MickyD]

That may be an exaggerated view, but not without some substance. It was my reaction to one of the examples in Beethoven Cello Sonata BaL.

(But if Jane Austen called it a pianoforte, I shall call it the same. The term "fortepiano" was rarely used in contemporary literature.)

The French still use 'pianoforte' to denote an early piano. I often wonder when the term 'fortepiano' came into being and who thought of it.