BaL 18.12.21 - Beethoven: Cello Sonata no. 3

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As usual, the recommended versions are highlighted in the opening post list:

Outright winner in red
Other recommendations in amber

[Bryn]

No new purchases for me. Of the recommendations, I would opt for the Schiff/Perenyi, which I got to supplement Schiff's piano sonatas survey on the same label. Barenboim's restriking technique I thought somewhat lacking in control in the excerpt I heard this morning. Sone of the 'second strikes' were as forceful as the first. That said, the two Bilsma recordings (with Immerssel and Bilson, respectively) I find preferable to those chosen by Burnside.

[richardfinegold]

I had played through the reissue box of the du Pre recordings a few months ago and remember the Sonata as particularly fine but my goodness, there are so many competing versions Of worth that the idea of a “winner” is particularly irrelevant here. Did Rostropovich/Richter rate a mention?
Bryn, I am not sure what you mean when you say “restriking technique “. Can you elaborate?

[Bryn]

. . . Bryn, I am not sure what you mean when you say “restriking technique “. Can you elaborate?

See http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...139#post869139

However, these were 'live' performances, so some leeway might be allowed. It was specifically the clip played on BaL that I was referring to.

[Parry1912]

As usual, the recommended versions are highlighted in the opening post list:

Outright winner in red
Other recommendations in amber

Thanks, EA

[Ein Heldenleben]

I had played through the reissue box of the du Pre recordings a few months ago and remember the Sonata as particularly fine but my goodness, there are so many competing versions Of worth that the idea of a “winner” is particularly irrelevant here. Did Rostropovich/Richter rate a mention?
Bryn, I am not sure what you mean when you say “restriking technique “. Can you elaborate?

Ian Burnside in an overall well -argued analysis did not care for R and R :” dour” , he thought , “not a good day for them” he opined . He also explained as length the restriking technique that’s only really practical on fortepianos or (possibly early pianos with a different escapement mechanism) . There are posts above on it…it’s essentially half releasing the key and restriking then because , unlike with modern pianos , the hammer hasn’t completely reset on the bed it produces a more muted effect. I think I’ve got that right …

[ardcarp]

I think the 're-striking' technique' discussion, whilst interesting, was a bit of a side issue. The following is also a side issue (!) as it concerns a concert I attended recently where the programme consisted of 3 Beethoven piano sonatas, back-to-back, No 30 in E major, Op 109, No 31 in A flat major, Op 110, and No 32 in C minor, Op 111.* Some think of Beethoven as a sort of step towards Romanticism. I've always disagreed with that rather simplistic view, and this particular concert absolutely knocked it on the head for me. His models and his harmonic language are clearly Classically inspired, but Beethoven's 'thing' is staggering creative originality, an originality that probably didn't lead anywhere specific. I found myself wondering what the inside of his head must be like during the production of such works...and of course virtuosity comes into it too. Returning to today's topic, whilst Jacqueline du Pré was in her time a fabulous performer, dittoo Barenboim, I felt their over-lush sounds, rubato and tempi were somehow just 'not Beethoven'.

*Pianist Cristian Sandrin

[jayne lee wilson]

I think the 're-striking' technique' discussion, whilst interesting, was a bit of a side issue. The following is also a side issue (!) as it concerns a concert I attended recently where the programme consisted of 3 Beethoven piano sonatas, back-to-back, No 30 in E major, Op 109, No 31 in A flat major, Op 110, and No 32 in C minor, Op 111. Some think of Beethoven as a sort of step towards Romanticism. I've always disagreed with that rather simplistic view, and this particular concert absolutely knocked it on the head for me. His models and his harmonic language are clearly Classically inspired, but Beethoven's 'thing' is staggering creative originality, an originality that probably didn't lead anywhere specific. I found myself wondering what the inside of his head must be like during the production of such works...and of course virtuosity comes into it too. Returning to today's topic, whilst Jacqueline du Pré was in her time a fabulous performer, dittoo Barenboim, I felt their over-lush sounds, rubato and tempi were somehow just 'not Beethoven'.

The OP.111 fierce-sonata/lyrical-variations contrasted structure inspired much later works, not least Prokofiev's 2nd Symphony....the Op.106 is also clearly a model for Robert Simpson's 10th Symphony...

OP.131 is also remarkably futuristic in its continuous short sections.......

[ardcarp]

Thanks for that Jayne. I did feel Ian Burnside's 'decision' owed much to his emotional attachment to the Jacqueline du Pré phenomenon, which he more or less admitted. I feel that attachment too, but it didn't sway my opinion about the work under the microscope today. I know it's been said before, but couldn't we do away with this 'shortlist' way of doing the programme?

I agree entirely about Op131...late quartets and my finals!

[Quarky]

Thanks for that Jayne. I did feel Ian Burnside's 'decision' owed much to his emotional attachment to the Jacqueline du Pré phenomenon, which he more or less admitted. I feel that attachment too, but it didn't sway my opinion about the work under the microscope today. I know it's been said before, but couldn't we do away with this 'shortlist' way of doing the programme?

Thanks for your objective view, Ardcarp. Ian Burnside's viewpoint has always turned me away from the music.

[silvestrione]

Thanks for your objective view, Ardcarp. Ian Burnside's viewpoint has always turned me away from the music.

I've always rather liked him, but today I thought some of his choice of phrases decidedly disappointing: 'massage', 'footrub', even 'scented candles' for something he clearly thought successful in its way (Maisky and Argerich in second subject of first movement). Here for once it was good to have Andrew McG to lead a corrective after the extract had been played.

[jonfan]

I've always rather liked him, but today I thought some of his choice of phrases decidedly disappointing: 'massage', 'footrub', even 'scented candles' for something he clearly thought successful in its way (Maisky and Argerich in second subject of first movement). Here for once it was good to have Andrew McG to lead a corrective after the extract had been played.

Yes, I’ve always liked him. He normally presents with a twinkle in his voice. Today he sounded hoarse at times so perhaps he wasn’t 100%?

[richardfinegold]

Ian Burnside in an overall well -argued analysis did not care for R and R :” dour” , he thought , “not a good day for them” he opined …

I think that most artists would settle for their “not really good day” being as successful as R&R. What a load of nonsense

[ardcarp]

He normally presents with a twinkle in his voice. Today he sounded hoarse at times so perhaps he wasn’t 100%?

I think 'testy' rather described his demeanor. Maybe not thrilled at doing a twosome?

On the subject of Barenboim, he's on BBC4 tonight, twice. Once doing a biog and then conducting the West-Eastern Divan orchestra. I'll be listening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012ttj

then

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fy01d

A past Prom.

[Barbirollians]

I rather enjoyed it . He took no nonsense from AmcG and I was happy with the winner albeit I still prefer JDP’s earlier account with Stephen Bishop Kovacevich.