BaL 6.11.21 - The music of Jan Dismas Zelenka

[ardcarp]

Thanks Jayne. I think Zelenka has a very individual harmonic language....a few surprising twists and turns that make him stand out from his contemporaries. I wonder if BAL will mention this?

[richardfinegold]

The only other complete orchestral set is the classic DG Archiv Collectors' Box, do you know it?
Modern instruments but a small group, and played with such love and affection, everyone really listening to and dialoguing with each other. Starry line-up with Holliger, Bourgue, Tuckwell et al with the Camerata Bern...includes the Trio Sonatas as well (which Holliger & Bourgue later remade for ECM).

Essential Zelenkan Listening!
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/ja.../0002894698422

Perusing the CD shelves, it does turn out that I own the Archiv set. Worked from home today and played the Capriccios from the cpo set and the Archiv. I had remembered the Archiv set as having very superior performances, but actually there was a lot of difference. I’d give a slight nod to the DG but very slight. Both are wonderful. I still wish that someone like Reinhard Goebel or Jordi Savall had tried their hand at Zelenka

[jayne lee wilson]

Perusing the CD shelves, it does turn out that I own the Archiv set. Worked from home today and played the Capriccios from the cpo set and the Archiv. I had remembered the Archiv set as having very superior performances, but actually there was a lot of difference. I’d give a slight nod to the DG but very slight. Both are wonderful. I still wish that someone like Reinhard Goebel or Jordi Savall had tried their hand at Zelenka

Reinhard Goebel was the "artistic supervisor" on this one, as the inlay says.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zelenka-Trio-Sonatas-ZWV-181/dp/B077H6WBB9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=zelenka+berlin+prag&qid=1635901418&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B077H6WBB9%2CB07HKQ7PJR%2C3937406204%2CB07HKM2R3D%2CB07HKLT9T3%2CB07HKLRF6D%2CB07HKLMYYN%2CB07HKLHQL3%2CB07HKKDGQK%2CB07HKJ3WPM%2CB07HKHX4DN%2CB005HB993Q%2CB07HKH21L5%2CB07HKG9DR4%2CB07HKFYKDN%2CB07HKF5CM6&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/zelenka-trio-sonatas-zwv-181-ensemble-berlin-prag/q1o5ym2dlvebc

A great set and a top modern choice along with Zefiro.....

[BBMmk2]

Reinhard Goebel was the "artistic supervisor" on this one, as the inlay says.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zelenka-Trio-Sonatas-ZWV-181/dp/B077H6WBB9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=zelenka+berlin+prag&qid=1635901418&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B077H6WBB9%2CB07HKQ7PJR%2C3937406204%2CB07HKM2R3D%2CB07HKLT9T3%2CB07HKLRF6D%2CB07HKLMYYN%2CB07HKLHQL3%2CB07HKKDGQK%2CB07HKJ3WPM%2CB07HKHX4DN%2CB005HB993Q%2CB07HKH21L5%2CB07HKG9DR4%2CB07HKFYKDN%2CB07HKF5CM6&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/zelenka-trio-sonatas-zwv-181-ensemble-berlin-prag/q1o5ym2dlvebc

A great set and a top modern choice along with Zefiro.....

I wonder, then, if the musicians were from Musica Antiqua, Köln?

[MickyD]

I wonder, then, if the musicians were from Musica Antiqua, Köln?

I guess it's possible, but MAK disbanded in 2007.

[jayne lee wilson]

I wonder, then, if the musicians were from Musica Antiqua, Köln?

In fact they came from the Berlin Philharmonic Academy, and include the oboe/cor anglais principal of the Philharmonic itself (Dominik Wollenweber, he of the amazing hair ), familiar to anyone who has ever watched the DCH...

http://www.ensembleberlinprag.com

[richardfinegold]

I guess it's possible, but MAK disbanded in 2007.

I didn't realize that they had disbanded. My bad, but here in the States I am so used to only knowing this Continental Groups via recordings, which live on indefinitely. Jlw sluething is also appreciated, and I didn't know that set existed. Still, I would like to see some more HIPP artist tackle Zelenka, as both the cpo recording and the Archiv set use modern instruments.

[jayne lee wilson]

I didn't realize that they had disbanded. My bad, but here in the States I am so used to only knowing this Continental Groups via recordings, which live on indefinitely. Jlw sluething is also appreciated, and I didn't know that set existed. Still, I would like to see some more HIPP artist tackle Zelenka, as both the cpo recording and the Archiv set use modern instruments.

You mean this CPO Orchestral Set?

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=cpo+zelenka+neu-effroffnete&i=boutique

...for they are indeed played on instruments d'époque....and very beautifully too.

[richardfinegold]

You mean this CPO Orchestral Set?

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=cpo+zelenka+neu-effroffnete&i=boutique

...for they are indeed played on instruments d'époque....and very beautifully too.

Well, it appears you are right…checking the type on the back of the CDs—in a microscopic font—it does say period instruments. I don’t hear any real Tim real difference though compared to the Archiv set.

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, it appears you are right…checking the type on the back of the CDs—in a microscopic font—it does say period instruments. I don’t hear any real Tim real difference though compared to the Archiv set.

Compare the Camerata and the Neu-Eröffnete in the Gavotte-Rondeau-Menuett sequence of the G Major Capriccio No.2.... very distinct winds/strings timbres there (and striking interpretive differences!)... you always note the sweetness and subtle vibrato of the Bern strings. But what wonderful performances they both are.

It is a tribute to the sensitivity of the pioneering Camerata (and the sheer giftedness of the players - what a wonderfully Baroque sound Tuckwell and Routch achieve on their horns) that they sound so idiomatic, texturally as well as musically.....instinctively and historically informed. They just know how it goes!

[MickyD]

I didn't realize that they had disbanded. My bad, but here in the States I am so used to only knowing this Continental Groups via recordings, which live on indefinitely. Jlw sluething is also appreciated, and I didn't know that set existed. Still, I would like to see some more HIPP artist tackle Zelenka, as both the cpo recording and the Archiv set use modern instruments.

Disbanded, if I remember correctly, because of Reinhardt Goebel's health problems, meaning he was no longer able to play the violin. Thankfully he took up conducting and has gone on to work on other fascinating projects.

[BBMmk2]

The only other complete orchestral set is the classic DG Archiv Collectors' Box, do you know it?
Modern instruments but a small group, and played with such love and affection, everyone really listening to and dialoguing with each other. Starry line-up with Holliger, Bourgue, Tuckwell et al with the Camerata Bern...includes the Trio Sonatas as well (which Holliger & Bourgue later remade for ECM).

Essential Zelenkan Listening!
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/ja.../0002894698422

I think that’s the set I have.

I might look into the others you’ve recommended. If you wouldn’t mind messaging me, about those it be great Jayne. Thank you.

[BBMmk2]

In fact they came from the Berlin Philharmonic Academy, and include the oboe/cor anglais principal of the Philharmonic itself (Dominik Wollenweber, he of the amazing hair ), familiar to anyone who has ever watched the DCH...
http://www.ensembleberlinprag.com

Thank you!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Dear me, despite some lovely soft playing in places , this improv’d jazzed up Beethoven 4 is grim .Roll on BAL …
What does 1808 version mean ? a stab at Beethoven’s improvisation? Think he would have made a less twiddly job of it …
Ooh it’s based on “manuscript recovery “ whatever that is…

[Bryn]

Dear me, despite some lovely soft playing in places , this improv’d jazzed up Beethoven 4 is grim .Roll on BAL …
What does 1808 version mean ? a stab at Beethoven’s improvisation? Think he would have made a less twiddly job of it …
Ooh it’s based on “manuscript recovery “ whatever that is…

Not really the right thread but having missed the Beethoven, was it the Barry Cooper reconstruction? If so, that was previously recorded (modern Steinway) by Brautigam and Parrott for BIS. Always interested to hear Beethoven's afterthoughts.