BaL 19.06.21 - Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde

[Bert]

Can't locate my old CD of Ferrier/Patzak/Walter so it's a perfect excuse to go to the Pristine Classical site and buy a new download.

However, I'm confused as to the relative merits of 24 bit mono and 16 bit Ambient stereo. Generally, I'm not crazy about mono, but perhaps the higher bit-rate could be important, I don't know.

Can anyone give a view and help steer me on this?

[Barbirollians]

I was very enthusiastic on the Forum about this release when I first heard it and can, once again, thoroughly recommend it. Yes, it's live, in mono, from 1960 but you forget all of that the instant it starts. It's an extraordinary performance with the NYPO playing like angels for Walter.

Yes - I presume they might have been his preferred soloists for his stereo remake but Reiner had already snapped them up. Mildred Miller I find very hard work .

[Barbirollians]

There is also the sadly never released on CD or it seems DVD of the work with von otter/Kaufmann and Abbado in Lucerne that used to turn up quite regularly on Sky Arts . It is excellent if not quite as sensational as the dVd Mahler 9 .

[jayne lee wilson]

Can't locate my old CD of Ferrier/Patzak/Walter so it's a perfect excuse to go to the Pristine Classical site and buy a new download.

However, I'm confused as to the relative merits of 24 bit mono and 16 bit Ambient stereo. Generally, I'm not crazy about mono, but perhaps the higher bit-rate could be important, I don't know.

Can anyone give a view and help steer me on this?

Read all about it......

https://www.pristineclassical.com/pages/ambient-stereo

Back in my download days I took dozens of Pristine releases of both kinds. If there was a 24-bit mono I usually went for that - body, presence, naturalness etc. There is often a little more space, depth and air (recording-dependent as ever) with the somewhat misnamed ambient stereo. But given Rose's technical excellence, I never really felt a huge preference either way...

There used to be samples onsite, can't see them now. The free streaming trial doesn't make it clear which version you are listening to, a shame (it might be there somewhere, I could have missed it, poke around and see).

But the best thing is just - download both the 24-bit mono and ambient stereo of the same issue, and see what your system makes of them...(I found Andrew Rose was very happy to respond back then, if you wrote to Pristine directly, try him for advice...)

[Barbirollians]

I was very enthusiastic on the Forum about this release when I first heard it and can, once again, thoroughly recommend it. Yes, it's live, in mono, from 1960 but you forget all of that the instant it starts. It's an extraordinary performance with the NYPO playing like angels for Walter.

Ludwig and Lewis , especially, the former are very good live with Reiner too in 1958 on Archipel.

[Barbirollians]

On another note - there were two Giulini recordings out with the same singers - the DG and a live one on Orfeo.

Alfreda Hodgson is the alto soloist with Gibson. John Mitchinson is the tenor .I bought a secondhand CFP copy a couple of years back - I really liked it.

[Bert]

Read all about it......

https://www.pristineclassical.com/pages/ambient-stereo

Back in my download days I took dozens of Pristine releases of both kinds. If there was a 24-bit mono I usually went for that - body, presence, naturalness etc. There is often a little more space, depth and air (recording-dependent as ever) with the somewhat misnamed ambient stereo. But given Rose's technical excellence, I never really felt a huge preference either way...

There used to be samples onsite, can't see them now. The free streaming trial doesn't make it clear which version you are listening to, a shame (it might be there somewhere, I could have missed it, poke around and see).

But the best thing is just - download both the 24-bit mono and ambient stereo of the same issue, and see what your system makes of them...(I found Andrew Rose was very happy to respond back then, if you wrote to Pristine directly, try him for advice...)

Thank you Jayne for taking the trouble to make such a detailed response, most helpful.

Having read the blurb on Ambient Stereo via the link you provide, I think I shall go right ahead with the AS version.

[gradus]

Much as I love this piece it's one of those that I rarely listen to at home, to my quaint way of thinking it is somehow better heard live in the concert hall.

[LHC]

There is also the sadly never released on CD or it seems DVD of the work with von otter/Kaufmann and Abbado in Lucerne that used to turn up quite regularly on Sky Arts . It is excellent if not quite as sensational as the dVd Mahler 9 .

The performance wasn't at Lucerne, but with the BPO in the Philharmonie. It can still be watched on the BPO's digital concert hall, and there are also pirate videos online. I agree it is very odd that it has never been released commercially, especially as the televised performance was co-produced by Euroarts and Accentus Music, both of whom produce commercial DVDs and Blu-rays. It is a very fine performance, and certainly much better than Kaufmann's other recording, the aberration in which he sings both parts.

[Petrushka]

The performance wasn't at Lucerne, but with the BPO in the Philharmonie. It can still be watched on the BPO's digital concert hall, and there are also pirate videos online. I agree it is very odd that it has never been released commercially, especially as the televised performance was co-produced by Euroarts and Accentus Music, both of whom produce commercial DVDs and Blu-rays. It is a very fine performance, and certainly much better than Kaufmann's other recording, the aberration in which he sings both parts.

It isn't even included on the BPO own label Mahler set even though the Symphony No 10 Adagio, that made up the first half of that concert, is. I've seen the Digital Concert Hall video recording and find it too visually distracting (especially von Otter) and prefer to hear the audio only.

[Barbirollians]

The performance wasn't at Lucerne, but with the BPO in the Philharmonie. It can still be watched on the BPO's digital concert hall, and there are also pirate videos online. I agree it is very odd that it has never been released commercially, especially as the televised performance was co-produced by Euroarts and Accentus Music, both of whom produce commercial DVDs and Blu-rays. It is a very fine performance, and certainly much better than Kaufmann's other recording, the aberration in which he sings both parts.

I wondered whether there were contractual issues with Kaufmann?

[Richard Barrett]

Much as I love this piece it's one of those that I rarely listen to at home, to my quaint way of thinking it is somehow better heard live in the concert hall.

Almost everything is! But even under normal circumstances it isn't performed as often as I feel the need to hear it.

[LHC]

I wondered whether there were contractual issues with Kaufmann?

You could well be right. There must be some issue preventing its release, as it would seem to fill a very obvious gap in Abbado’s discography, is a very fine performance and has a strong set of soloists.

[DublinJimbo]

How many of those are of the Schoenberg-Riehn chamber arrangement?

My go-to recording of the Schoenberg/Riehn version is the Herreweghe.

[richardfinegold]

Can't locate my old CD of Ferrier/Patzak/Walter so it's a perfect excuse to go to the Pristine Classical site and buy a new download.

However, I'm confused as to the relative merits of 24 bit mono and 16 bit Ambient stereo. Generally, I'm not crazy about mono, but perhaps the higher bit-rate could be important, I don't know.

Can anyone give a view and help steer me on this?

It depends on how you feel about Pristine Classical’s “Ambient Stereo”. If you think it really does an approximation of true stereo than I would go for it. I think 24 bit mono is a bit arch; there is only so much juice that one can squeeze from recordings of that era and upsampling the daylights out of them won’t change it that much.
Pristine does offer a streaming surface with a free trial period. I haven’t used it but it would be interesting to see if you could use it and sample both versions.
I just read jlw post, so mine is redundant, but she apparently appreciates their 24 bit offerings a bit more than I do.
I wonder if that recording is in the big Walter box released by Sony, a which I have but is stored in a rather difficult to reach place just now, and if other streaming services have therefore made it available.