BaL 29.05.21 - Bach, JS: Motets, BWV225-230

[Ein Heldenleben]

Agree. But alas it did contain an all too vivid illustration of why people find the twoferism to be inappropriate, irrelevant and irksome: the interlocutor unnecessarily anticipated a point the reviewer was about to make about the actual number of Motets Bach wrote and commented, "You've stolen my thunder". In his position, I would also have been slightly annoyed.

That’s because they hadn’t put quite enough prep into the who is going to say what divi-up which is the only way to make these things smooth...

[edashtav]

Let's hope so. If anyone can, SH will if he's given a clear run at it. I must say it's a big ask to survey these motets, so well-loved of singers/choirs. There is no way of doing the 'start at the beginning and work through' which has been a recent (and IMO rubbish) tactic. I hope SH will hop around the motets, comparing examples of how choirs articulate different 'moods', e.g. the openings of Lobet and ditto Jesu meine Freude. As I've said several times in the past, the allotted span for these comparisons is just not long enough, especially if they're including "What are we going to hear next?" padding. As the whole programme is called Record Review, couldn't we have a bit longer to Review the Recordings?

Although Simon Heighes did an excellent job, the constraints that you identify so well were evident in an annoying fashion: I was aware of the glorious detail that was lost through forcing a quart into a pint pot.

[DracoM]

Actually, wasn't this a more or less hopelessly impossible task in the first place?
Poor SH!!

[edashtav]

Actually, wasn't this a more or less hopelessly impossible task in the first place?
Poor SH!!

[ardcarp]

Agreed the two recordings that came top of the list sounded fantastic, from the short excerpts we heard.
However I have two criticisms, both relating to performance by choirs of men and boys, which for the HIPP movement should be an important element.
1. We only heard one, I think; a snippet of New College Oxford with Higginbottom, followed by the (slighlty insulting?) comment that 'this was what Bach would have expected....boys and young students learning their craft.' Er, hadn't they 'learned their craft' pretty well by then?
2. We didn't hear a single German choir from Alpie's list whose sound Bach might have recognised.

I think the Thomanerchor recorded motets several times. Might we not have heard from them, even if only as a comparison?

[Richard Barrett]

followed by the (slighlty insulting?) comment that 'this was what Bach would have expected....boys and young students learning their trade.' Er, hadn't they 'learned their trade' pretty well by then?

This is a problematic issue with HIPP in repertoire like this, since boys' voices broke later in Bach's time than they do now, so that the boys taking Bach's soprano and alto parts were somewhat older and more experienced than today's boy singers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This is a problematic issue with HIPP in repertoire like this, since boys' voices broke later in Bach's time than they do now, so that the boys taking Bach's soprano and alto parts were somewhat older and more experienced than today's boy singers.

They also had the advantage of Bach training them...

[Darloboy]

I think the Thomanerchor recorded motets several times. Might we not have heard from them, even if only as a comparison?

I suppose we might, if it weren't for the constraints of the shortlist.

[Darloboy]

I've just noticed that the Herreweghe details given for this week's programme on the BBC web site are for his 1986 Harmonia Mundi recording. My recollection of the programme is that SH in fact recommended Herreweghe's 2011 recording which is on the Phi label.

[ardcarp]

They also had the advantage of Bach training them...

Well of course we have no idea how good or bad JSB was as a choir trainer! However he was writing for a choir probably founded in 1212 and hearing them, if only briefly, may have been informative whether they were on the 'shortlist' or not.

[MickyD]

As mentioned before, the Hilliard/Hannover Boys Choir/London Baroque is an all-male version. Originally on EMI Reflexe, it's now part of a Warner twofer ....and the second disc, especially for Richard Barrett, is of Schutz motets!

[Goon525]

I've just noticed that the Herreweghe details given for this week's programme on the BBC web site are for his 1986 Harmonia Mundi recording. My recollection of the programme is that SH in fact recommended Herreweghe's 2011 recording which is on the Phi label.

That’s my recollection too.

[vinteuil]

As mentioned before, the Hilliard/Hannover Boys Choir/London Baroque is an all-male version. Originally on EMI Reflexe, it's now part of a Warner twofer ....and the second disc, especially for Richard Barrett, is of Schutz motets!

... and just now purchased by me for £3.09 incl p&p.


: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00080JDQ4/

But the Hilliard performance referenced by Simon Heighes was their later recording on ecm, with no instrumental support -

: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000NJKYKY

I've just noticed that the Herreweghe details given for this week's programme on the BBC web site are for his 1986 Harmonia Mundi recording. My recollection of the programme is that SH in fact recommended Herreweghe's 2011 recording which is on the Phi label.

... yes, the Herreweghe he discussed was the 2011 on phi

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004V4GXTI/

and not the (also fine) earlier one, in this and other incarnations -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GS601AO/r

.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well of course we have no idea how good or bad JSB was as a choir trainer! However he was writing for a choir probably founded in 1212 and hearing them, if only briefly, may have been informative whether they were on the 'shortlist' or not.

If only some one had kept a diary or ,more likely, that a diary had survived . My guess is he was exceptional

[Goon525]

Moved BBMmk2's post as suggested to 'What Classical Music are you listening to now'
(Ardcarp)