BaL 15.05.21 - C.P.E. Bach: Cello Concerto no. 3 in A

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’ve now listened to the first and second movements of the A minor . I agree a lovely string sound . I do not find the sound over reverberant . It is pleasingly warm. I do think though it is difficult to place instruments in the stereo image . This is where it gets very personal . Some people prefer the BBC / EMI approach - a perceptible sound stage with solo instruments clearly positioned in the stereo image. Others prefer the wide stereo wash that you get in Decca recordings. For me I can’t place the cello - it occupies (as does the harpsichord) too wide a size in the stereo image. The violins to me reach out either side of the speakers indicating a lot of what’s called S signal ( reverb also bumps this up) . But it’s all hugely personal - if it sounds nice - great.
I also think the recording is a little Bass heavy.
Incidentally the Eulenberg score has a flute doubling the cello solo. I couldn’t hear this on the recording so went to the manuscript on IMSLP and guess what no flute!
The reason for posting the Gramphone article was to get the only image of the band in a recording session and at least an idea of their recording approach . It doesn’t reveal much - quite a bit of multi micing . Couldn’t see any coincident pairs or Decca trees but these days you can’t really tell what’s going on unless you know what the mics are. I wish they would log how they do it!
Lovely piece of music and playing ...

[Richard Barrett]

Incidentally the Eulenberg score has a flute doubling the cello solo.

That's not a doubling part, it's an alternative - it can either be a flute concerto or a cello concerto. There's a harpsichord version too. I believe this goes for all three cello concertos in fact.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That's not a doubling part, it's an alternative - it can either be a flute concerto or a cello concerto. There's a harpsichord version too. I believe this goes for all three cello concertos in fact.

That explains a lot!

[jayne lee wilson]

I’ve now listened to the first and second movements of the A minor . I agree a lovely string sound . I do not find the sound over reverberant . It is pleasingly warm. I do think though it is difficult to place instruments in the stereo image . This is where it gets very personal . Some people prefer the BBC / EMI approach - a perceptible sound stage with solo instruments clearly positioned in the stereo image. Others prefer the wide stereo wash that you get in Decca recordings. For me I can’t place the cello - it occupies (as does the harpsichord) too wide a size in the stereo image. The violins to me reach out either side of the speakers indicating a lot of what’s called S signal ( reverb also bumps this up) . But it’s all hugely personal - if it sounds nice - great.
I also think the recording is a little Bass heavy.
Incidentally the Eulenberg score has a flute doubling the cello solo. I couldn’t hear this on the recording so went to the manuscript on IMSLP and guess what no flute!
The reason for posting the Gramphone article was to get the only image of the band in a recording session and at least an idea of their recording approach . It doesn’t reveal much - quite a bit of multi micing . Couldn’t see any coincident pairs or Decca trees but these days you can’t really tell what’s going on unless you know what the mics are. I wish they would log how they do it!
Lovely piece of music and playing ...

The Cello Concertos were recorded (like many BCJ/BIS albums) in the Kobe Shoin Womens University Chapel, and very striking it is -

https://www.google.com/search?q=kobe+shoin+women%27s+university+chapel&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjLnqqerd_wAhVH5IUKHa6fCi0Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=kobe+shoin+women%27s+university+chapel&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1Dn7wFYlIUCYMeMAmgAcAB4AIABNYgB1gKSAQE3mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=-g2qYMu5GsfIlwSuv6roAg&bih=706&biw=1252&client=safari#imgrc=G9NSd6xY644PcM

Here, in softer passages the cello appears pretty central, although you'd expect that (or marginally centre-left) given Suzuki is directing-from. Harpsichord just centre-right, perhaps a little setback.
But yes, they do spread out into the large acoustic as the levels rise (a typical BIS balance). So - broadly in agreement on that one. The violins and orchestral strings are spaciously placed, arcing back well behind the speakers. They don't spread beyond the lateral plane here, but I do have the speakers fairly wide apart and angled in. Well out into the room. On this occasion at least, no bass heaviness.

“Typical of BIS’ holistic approach, they capture image and acoustic as one - complementary and inseparable” was a Gramophone comment about one of their Cantata albums (which I bought) in 1999 (Ivor Humphreys).

Whatever my slight reservations about Wq172, I'm warming more and more to this set, especially as it includes Wq171 - the one usually left out if other CPE works are mixed in. And I'm truly enraptured by the sound of those 12 Orchestral strings!

[Ein Heldenleben]

The Cello Concertos were recorded (like many BCJ/BIS albums) in the Kobe Shoin Womens University Chapel, and very striking it is -

https://www.google.com/search?q=kobe+shoin+women%27s+university+chapel&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjLnqqerd_wAhVH5IUKHa6fCi0Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=kobe+shoin+women%27s+university+chapel&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1Dn7wFYlIUCYMeMAmgAcAB4AIABNYgB1gKSAQE3mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=-g2qYMu5GsfIlwSuv6roAg&bih=706&biw=1252&client=safari#imgrc=G9NSd6xY644PcM

Here, in softer passages the cello appears pretty central, although you'd expect that (or marginally centre-left) given Suzuki is directing-from. Harpsichord just centre-right, perhaps a little setback.
But yes, they do spread out into the large acoustic as the levels rise (a typical BIS balance). So - broadly in agreement on that one. The violins and orchestral strings are spaciously placed, arcing back well behind the speakers. They don't spread beyond the lateral plane here, but I do have the speakers fairly wide apart and angled in. Well out into the room, so on this occasion no bass heaviness.

“Typical of BIS’ holistic approach, they capture image and acoustic as one - complementary and inseparable” was a Gramophone comment about one of their Cantata albums (which I bought) in 1999 (Ivor Humphreys).

Whatever my slight reservations about Wq172, I'm warming more and more to this set, especially as it includes Wq171 - the one usually left out if other CPE works are mixed in. And I'm truly enraptured by the sound of those 12 Orchestral strings!

Interestingly I went onto listen to the third movement and in that movement I could place the cello more or less centre of stereo image. It’s all an aesthetic choice really : half way back in many concert halls you can’t place instruments that accurately . I nearly always sit near the front on the LHS ( as far away from brass as poss) and I am used to be able to place at least 1st and 2nds(or Cellos depending on stage layout) , horns (if LHS ) , woodwind , brass and double basses. Of course in baroque recordings they may be nothing like as concerned at band layout so a reverberant recording where you can’t place the instruments may be a pretty accurate reproduction of listening to a baroque performance in a church ( but maybe not in a small wooden room? ) . As I say you pays your money and you takes your choice . On another thread I compared the Decca Ring with the EMI Mahler 5 under Barborolli. In the latter you can place the instrument groups in the stereo image , in the former you get the brass seeming to fill the entire sound stage - which I suspect (not having been there) is pretty much what you’d experience at Bayreuth with its famous orchestra cover.

[jayne lee wilson]

ISSERLIS/Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie (Hyperion CD) and ALTSTAEDT/Arcangelo/Cohen (Hyperion CD).
(BaL shortlist/winner)

So, so beautiful, with its large, lush orchestral strings and Isserlis’ flowing, singing lines…..ensemble and soloist sensitive to each other point-to-point….. very observant of all the dynamic shifts and subtlties this music has to offer. But….

Finally, it all seems just a little too beautiful. More of a big band Mozart E Flat Piano Concerto than a keen-eyed sharply-articulated C Minor. So on repeated hearings I felt it was simply too safe, as a musical experience, too reassuring; perhaps that old feeling of modern-instrument baroque sounding rather generalised, smoothing out individual stylistic quirks and joys - despite the devoted beauty of the playing.
The Largo here is more of a consoling Romantic song, domesticated away from the depths. Their allegros were among the few recordings in which my interest drifted.
Oh, it is a lovely album, with the two Haydn Cello Concertos and some Mozart and Boccherini sweeteners. But crucially there wasn’t much stylistic differentiation between them: all sung in Isserlis’ oh-so-beautiful voice, seductive as that is. Though it might come off the shelf again for sheer aural or audiophile hedonism, I have several before it in the play-queue for this repertoire. Which brings us to….

Altstaedt … you’re in another world with this one.
Here, if you want it, is a presentation of all three CPE Cello Concertos which should be in every Baroque collection, not just CPE-Believers. It sings when it wants, spikes when it wants, or just goes its own sweet way on a whim….so impulsive, playful and challenging!
So true to the restless spirit, but precise within it, ensemble and soloist playing off each other in their endlessly varying pace and attack. Altstaedt and Arcangelo can surprise you or seduce you with their creative freedoms, often each within seconds of the other.

But then, in the great Largo of the A Major, expecting something rather intimate and confessional (à la Queyras) I was surprised by a grander, more universalising tragic intonation (the great and striking feature of Dieltiens and Suzuki). Con sordini, mesto, and The Arcangelo strings find an impressively largamente amplitude here; Altstaedt’s response, a plangent senza vibrato transformed to meet the emotional demands. I like the harpsichord’s freely creative, quasi-improvisatory approach in this Largo (surely one of the greatest slow movements, and not only of the Baroque repertoire), again as on the Queyras, far more than a mere servant of continuity.

The recorded sound, ensemble almost ideally placed, soloist placed with them, acoustically spacious and tonally alluring, is among the best, perhaps the very best, I’ve heard in this repertoire, across more than half a dozen such releases….

Terrific album - a slam-dunk stone-cold sure-fire classic.
Go on, get over to Hyperion, just go and get it. You owe it to yourself.

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68112