BaL 8.05.21 - Smetana: Má Vlast

[Barbirollians]

#63

Ah but there is a difference between being available and being available for a song .

[cloughie]

Ah but there is a difference between being available and being available for a song .

True! I was just pointing out availabilty and different labels - incidentally for any Kubelik completists it is in a forthcoming Kubelik Eloquence Box of Decca recordings and there is a companion Eloquence Mercury box which includes the CSO Ma Vlast.

[Barbirollians]

Enjoying my £0.94 secondhand VPO/Kubelik recording tonight.

[visualnickmos]

Enjoying my £0.94 secondhand VPO/Kubelik recording tonight.

[Nick Armstrong]

Well, I heard nothing to complain about in today's BaL. However, that may just be because, following a very late night, I slept right through it without hearing a note or word of it.

Only just listened. I let the “buttery” &c. comments wash over me (I like Alison’s phrase “coffee table punditry”...), but was happy to hear the extracts of a work I’ve long meant to get to know better (other than Vltava which is one of my earliest musical memories, from a parental 45rpm disc)

I’d added Hrůša/PP, Bělohlávek/CPO & Neumann/Leipzig to my Qobuz queue before they started to sum up so had no argument with the conclusions - they sounded the most inviting performances of those illustrated, to my ears.

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne, I’m currently away from home and can’t do any serious listening - I’d be very interested in your current choice as and when you get time to do some work on this!

Sorry for not responding sooner or at length, but listening to the BRSO/Kubelik (Orfeo) with extensive CSO/Kubelik (Mercury) comparisons, my feelings didn't change much, and still align with the Rob Cowan survey too.
The Orfeo is the best recorded of all the Kubeliks (with stunning brasses) although a Japanese issue of the 1990 Czech Phil one I have runs it pretty close, and the latter is sui generis inspirational really.

So, warm affections towards Chicago and Prague but if I had to choose one - Munich. Haven't revisited Boston or Vienna in a while, but there are no terrible Kubelik Ma Vlasts really... VPO was quite early, and the various G. reviews across the decades re SQ (sound quality) were less than flattering....

So perhaps the point here is that the best Kubeliks tend to come, unsurprisingly, from the orchestras he had the closest, most intense relationships with (including Chicago). If you were sampling off of Qobuz, I'd try those first in whatsoever order you fancy....

[Barbirollians]

Sorry for not responding sooner or at length, but listening to the BRSO/Kubelik (Orfeo) with extensive CSO/Kubelik (Mercury) comparisons, my feelings didn't change much, and still align with the Rob Cowan survey too.
The Orfeo is the best recorded of all the Kubeliks (with stunning brasses) although a Japanese issue of the 1990 Czech Phil one I have runs it pretty close, and the latter is sui generis inspirational really.

So, warm affections towards Chicago and Prague but if I had to choose one - Munich. Haven't revisited Boston or Vienna in a while, but there are no terrible Kubelik Ma Vlasts really... VPO was quite early, and the various G. reviews across the decades re SQ (sound quality) were less than flattering....

So perhaps the point here is that the best Kubeliks tend to come, unsurprisingly, from the orchestras he had the closest, most intense relationships with (including Chicago). If you were sampling off of Qobuz, I'd try those first in whatsoever order you fancy....

Rather baffled by the Gramophone criticisms of the VPO/Kubelik recording wise- pretty clear early stereo to me and I see Trevor Harvey praised the recording in his original review.

Was the 1970s favourite the Dresden Berglund mentioned at all ?

[jayne lee wilson]

Rather baffled by the Gramophone criticisms of the VPO/Kubelik recording wise- pretty clear early stereo to me and I see Trevor Harvey praised the recording in his original review.

Was the 1970s favourite the Dresden Berglund mentioned at all ?

The current Qobuz offering for VPO/Kubelik is the lossless Decca Eloquence issue which does sound a bit dry and spatially constricted. The distinctive orchestral character still gets across well though, if with slightly congested climaxes, and slightly harsh and edgy top end with some background hiss/rumble. But it is a full sound, atmospheric and vividly characterised, with appealingly gutty lower strings.
"Playing Now", its growing on me; I can see why listeners would be fond of it.

Rob Cowan's three were "Kubelik in Munich [i.e. the Orfeo one] the young Talich in Prague, and Berglund in Dresden"

[cloughie]

CPO Mackerras very enjoyable recent acquisition.

[BBMmk2]

CPO Mackerras very enjoyable recent acquisition.

I have that too! Agreed, very enjoyable!

[visualnickmos]

The current Qobuz offering for VPO/Kubelik is the lossless Decca Eloquence issue which does sound a bit dry and spatially constricted. The distinctive orchestral character still gets across well though, if with slightly congested climaxes, and slightly harsh and edgy top end with some background hiss/rumble. But it is a full sound, atmospheric and vividly characterised, with appealingly gutty lower strings.
"Playing Now", its growing on me; I can see why listeners would be fond of it.

Rob Cowan's three were "Kubelik in Munich [i.e. the Orfeo one] the young Talich in Prague, and Berglund in Dresden"

The VPO / Kubelik was the first Ma Vlast that I obtained, (indeed, heard) vinyl, of course. I thought the sound was a bit 'odd-sounding' but nevertheles, loved the thrills and spills of listening. As I acqiuired one or two more recordings, I'd forgotten about it! Now have it on CD, and I must say the sound is rather superb - not in the least 'odd-sounding' and I've grown to re-love it very much. Yes- the lower string are rich and full-bodied, and to my ears have a suitably 'folksy' timbre.

[jayne lee wilson]

The VPO / Kubelik was the first Ma Vlast that I obtained, (indeed, heard) vinyl, of course. I thought the sound was a bit 'odd-sounding' but nevertheles, loved the thrills and spills of listening. As I acqiuired one or two more recordings, I'd forgotten about it! Now have it on CD, and I must say the sound is rather superb - not in the least 'odd-sounding' and I've grown to re-love it very much. Yes- the lower string are rich and full-bodied, and to my ears have a suitably 'folksy' timbre.

There is still (in 1958) the "Sound of Old Vienna" in there somewhere isn't there? As you hear in Knappertsbusch' Bruckner, Scherchen's Haydn etc...
So you perceive that Slav-folk input, Bohemian in character, Austro-Hungarian in its sources....very appealing. You are reminded of Mahler's "thrice homeless" comment.

The Wiener Phiharmoniker have lost some of their distinctiveness since the 50s, so it would be interesting to see what Harnoncourt made of it in Ma Vlast..... but I'm a slow listener these days, and its a long work. Ars Longa Vita Brevis indeed... glad I revisited this one though.

[Serial_Apologist]

There is still (in 1958) the "Sound of Old Vienna" in there somewhere isn't there? As you hear in Knappertsbusch' Bruckner, Scherchen's Haydn etc...
So you perceive that Slav-folk input, Bohemian in character, Austro-Hungarian in its sources....very appealing. You are reminded of Mahler's "thrice homeless" comment.

The Wiener Phiharmoniker have lost some of their distinctiveness since the 50s, so it would be interesting to see what Harnoncourt made of it in Ma Vlast..... but I'm a slow listener these days, and its a long work. Ars Longa Vita Brevis indeed... glad I revisited this one though.

Each of its movements can be legitimately listened to as stand alones though, I think?

[jayne lee wilson]

Each of its movements can be legitimately listened to as stand alones though, I think?

Yes, but some work better than others. 1, 5 and 6 make little sense outside of the sequence. Vltava is the most frequently and effectively separated, largely on account of its big tune, tone-painting of the riverrun, and very grand finale....

Sarka and Bohemia somewhere in between (you probably need the program note even more though, if played separately), but far better within the cycle.

[Bryn]

Yes, but some work better than others. 1, 5 and 6 make little sense outside of the sequence. Vltava is the most frequently and effectively separated, largely on account of its big tune, tone-painting of the riverrun, and very grand finale....

Sarka and Bohemia somewhere in between (you probably need the program note even more though, if played separately), but far better within the cycle.

, though I'm not that fond of listening to even Vltava on its own.