BaL 8.05.21 - Smetana: Má Vlast

[Wolfram]

Is it just me, or are we getting a succession of extracts played without any meaningful analysis of strengths and weaknesses? Quite a contrast with Messrs Wigmore and Simeone.

I really couldn't agree more.

[ardcarp]

What’s a ‘cluttered start’ exactly...?

My thoughts exactly; also the 'dark but glittering' reference at one point!

To be fair to the programme, there was such a lot to cover in 45 mins. It was almost impossible to cram in musical comparisons of the same extracts given the interest...and it was a real interest for me...in the history, politics and occupations of the Czech region.

The format of the programme seems to have settled into beginning at the beginning of a work and going through it section by section. That's a bit of a cop-out really because it leaves no time for comparisons. Maybe just Vltava would have been enough? I've always thought (even as a youngster) that the last two movements have little to say.

An unimportant PS. The LP I had as a youth...and I think it was from the Vienna Phil....took the opening of Vltava just a tad faster. The flutes 'flowed' more as did the big string theme when it arrived.

[jayne lee wilson]

For anyone able to access it, there's an excellent Gramophone Collection survey of Ma Vlast in 1/1998 covering nearly 60 years of recordings, from Rob Cowan, especially useful for the historical background and an overview of all the Kubelik efforts.

His final three were "Kubelik in Munich [i.e. the Orfeo one] the young Talich in Prague, and Berglund in Dresden". I was once obsessed with this work and I would certainly agree with the Kubelik choice, despite the extraordinarily moving 1990 rapprochement. I often used to return to the Chicago one as well, for its energy and raw excitement. That sense of mutual conductor/orchestra discovery.

Slightly surprised at listeners who find the last two movements, so umbilically linked to each other and the cycle, a disappointment. I often found Tábor the most thrilling piece of all, reminding me as it does of Janacek's Taras Bulba.
(Janacek composed his own Ballad of Blanik, of course).

But I haven't heard the work complete for some years, and perhaps its time to revisit and reappraise......

[Goon525]

Jayne, I’m currently away from home and can’t do any serious listening - I’d be very interested in your current choice as and when you get time to do some work on this!

[edashtav]

Lots of examples but no reason or musical explanation for their choice, instead lots of superficial historical background and very flowery language. Turned off after half an hour as starting to annoy me so much, so missed the improvement mentioned above. For once AMcG’s many interruptions were a benefit .

You can tell when someone knows the music inside out eg the recent Haydn and Stravinsky programmes and when they do not, ie today and the Josquin.

I agree.

[kernelbogey]

Indeed. I found the narrative / dialogue or whatever, stilted, and disjointed. Awkward alert!

I suspect much may depend on how they handle the scripts. Maybe the reviewer today submitted a draft script and AMcG seperately drafted his interpolations. I agree that it was stilted and points made by the reviewer were simply left hanging... or a 'who do we have next' question followed. This is a dull format, and the old style one-person review worked better, as has often been said.

So I don't blame the reviewer. As I have no intention of adding this work, likable as it is, to my collection, I just regard this as entertainment

[Petrushka]

For anyone able to access it, there's an excellent Gramophone Collection survey of Ma Vlast in 1/1998 covering nearly 60 years of recordings, from Rob Cowan, especially useful for the historical background and an overview of all the Kubelik efforts.

His final three were "Kubelik in Munich [i.e. the Orfeo one] the young Talich in Prague, and Berglund in Dresden". I was once obsessed with this work and I would certainly agree with the Kubelik choice, despite the extraordinarily moving 1990 rapprochement. I often used to return to the Chicago one as well, for its energy and raw excitement. That sense of mutual conductor/orchestra discovery.

Slightly surprised at listeners who find the last two movements, so umbilically linked to each other and the cycle, a disappointment. I often found Tábor the most thrilling piece of all, reminding me as it does of Janacek's Taras Bulba.
(Janacek composed his own Ballad of Blanik, of course).

But I haven't heard the work complete for some years, and perhaps its time to revisit and reappraise......

I've been a bit obsessed with Ma Vlast in recent years and never tire of it. I've not heard the Orfeo Kubelik so that's gone straight to the top of my wish list. I'm currently finding plenty to enjoy in Kubelik's Boston SO recording.

Janacek also wrote his own 'Sarka' too.

Does anyone here know the Hrusa/Prague Philharmonia version recommended by Ms Picard?

[Bryn]

I've been a bit obsessed with Ma Vlast in recent years and never tire of it. I've not heard the Orfeo Kubelik so that's gone straight to the top of my wish list. I'm currently finding plenty to enjoy in Kubelik's Boston SO recording.

Janacek also wrote his own 'Sarka' too.

Does anyone here know the Hrusa/Prague Philharmonia version recommended by Ms Picard?

Not as yet, but Hrusa comes with good provenance.

[cloughie]

Not as yet, but Hrusa comes with good provenance.

As exemplified by his 2019 Prom performance.

[Petrushka]

As exemplified by his 2019 Prom performance.

Indeed so. Still kicking myself for failing to attend that Prom.

[Roslynmuse]

As exemplified by his 2019 Prom performance.

Absolutely. I burned that one to a CD. (It was a tight fit!)

[ardcarp]

Found my old friend at last:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133667742857?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D232196%26meid%3D6844e3fed98342bd9c605513340b3337%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D163673687993%26itm%3D133667742857%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

Affordable in Mono, but the stereo version:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMETANA-MA-VLAST-RAFAEL-KUBELIK-VIENNA-PHILHARMONIC-ORCHESTRA-1958-STEREO-DECCA-/163673687993

I think I'll pass on that one. £100

PS We've still got a ton of old LPs. Maybe I should get rich by flogging some? Anyone tried it???

[jonfan]

Absolutely. I burned that one to a CD. (It was a tight fit!)

So did I, a few seconds under 80 minutes.

[Petrushka]

Found my old friend at last:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133667742857?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D232196%26meid%3D6844e3fed98342bd9c605513340b3337%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D163673687993%26itm%3D133667742857%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

Affordable in Mono, but the stereo version:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMETANA-MA-VLAST-RAFAEL-KUBELIK-VIENNA-PHILHARMONIC-ORCHESTRA-1958-STEREO-DECCA-/163673687993

I think I'll pass on that one. £100

PS We've still got a ton of old LPs. Maybe I should get rich by flogging some? Anyone tried it???

Kubelik's VPO Ma Vlast is included in a forthcoming Eloquence box complete with original sleeve design

https://www.eloquenceclassics.com/releases/rafael-kubelik-complete-decca-recordings/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rafael-Kubelik-Complete-Decca-Recordings/dp/B093RZJF6S/ref=sr_1_3?crid=28OBWBXXK33JP&dchild=1&keywords=kubelik+eloquence&qid=1620508370&s=music&sprefix=kubelik%2Caps%2C206&sr=1-3

[richardfinegold]

Who won this one? I haveAncerl, never felt the need to add to it