BaL 1.05.21 - Haydn: Symphony no. 92 "Oxford"

[cloughie]

Regarding repeats, I have no interest in Haydn performances that don't do them.

I think with repeats in Haydn or Mozart if they sound good and well played I don’t want them to end but if, as with Jacobs they seem to be rattling on forever then no thanks!

[Goon525]

Regarding repeats, I have no interest in Haydn performances that don't do them.

I’d agree re exposition repeats, but not second half ones, and not in minuet repeats. But in this case Jacobs apparently takes them when they’re not even marked.

[Bryn]

I’d agree re exposition repeats, but not second half ones, and not in minuet repeats. But in this case Jacobs apparently takes them when they’re not even marked.

How many editions of the 92nd were published in Haydn's lifetime, or were you referring to a surviving manuscript (that reproduced on IMSLP appears not to carry them.). I know the string quartets were issued in quite a few editions. There again, if HCRL said they were not indicated by Haydn . . .

[Goon525]

How many editions of the 92nd were published in Haydn's lifetime, or were you referring to a surviving manuscript (that reproduced on IMSLP appears not to carry them.). I know the string quartets were issued in quite a few editions. There again, if HCRL said they were not indicated by Haydn . . .

I’m merely quoting Richard Wigmore. I don’t have a score. But it doesn’t alter my aesthetic preference agin them.

[DoctorT]

Excellent Gramophone writer who really knows his Haydn and the Catalogue......

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/haydn-the-poor-man-s-mozart

.....offers a choice (doubtless provisional) for No.92 at the end...

Thanks Jayne, that’s a great article

[Maclintick]

Pulcinella: sorry not to have replied sooner - still living out of boxes after a house-move

My obviously unassailable source was Wiki, which says:
"The symphony is called the "Oxford" because Haydn is said to have conducted it at the conclusion of a ceremony in 1791 in which the degree of Doctor of Music was conferred on him by Oxford University. A candidate for this doctorate was required to present a specimen of his skill in composition, and that presented by Haydn was not as is sometimes said this symphony, but a minuet al rovescio, i. e. a palindrome, though not one specially composed for the occasion, as it first appears in G major in Haydn’s 1772 symphony no. 47 (Hob. I:47), and in the following year in A major as the minuet of his keyboard sonata in that key (Hob. XVI:26), where the trio is also a palindrome. The "Oxford" nickname stuck, though the symphony had actually been written in 1789 for performance in Paris. The degree was conferred fairly soon after Haydn’s first arrival in England, and as he had not by then finished composing any of the twelve "London" symphonies which he ultimately wrote for England, he brought to the Oxford ceremony his most recently completed example in the form."

There is no quoted source for this but the footnotes indicate that the writer has at least heard of HC Robbins Landon It may well be that links in an earlier posting (JLW's?) which I haven't had time to study will explain the reasons for the confusion.

If you persevere with the Wiki article there appears to be no divergence from HCRL's attribution of the work having been performed in the Sheldonian during Haydn's stay for the conferral of his doctorate:

"As Haydn had agreed to conduct three concerts in Oxford in connection with receiving his degree, a rehearsal was scheduled for the second morning, and the same evening the symphony we now know as the Oxford was played to the same acclaim it had previously enjoyed at Johann Peter Salomon's concerts in London. "

I found this BAL a bit of a disappointment, not on account of any deficiency in Richard Wigmore's presentation, but because, as others have commented, there seemed to be a paucity of good modern versions, HIPP or otherwise. The FBO/Jacobs suffers from an over-resonant acoustic which renders the timpani sound ruinously cavernous in the outer movements. I could live with the frenetic tempo in the finale except that in this soupy environment it's impossible to hear a lot of telling detail -- string figuration is smudged & woodwind interjections lose piquancy. FCO/Berglund is fine as a modern version but a bit monochrome in orchestral colouring compared to HIPP alternatives -- my own preference being for Orchestra 18c./Bruggen. LPB/Kuijken isn't available in any modern format, apparently..Oh, for COE with Nezet-Seguin or Abbado...

[vinteuil]

... LPB/Kuijken isn't available in any modern format, apparently

... this one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00000J2PW

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005UVAO

.

[Bryn]

... this one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00000J2PW

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005UVAO

.

I'd certainly recommend the boxed set. It has served me well, over the years.

[Maclintick]

I'd certainly recommend the boxed set. It has served me well, over the years.

Thanks, Bryn & Vints. Not sure why this wasn't in Alpie's list ... nor why I couldn't find it online The reviews on Amazon are hilarious, however. Can the box-set be acquired elsewhere ?

[Bryn]

Thanks, Bryn & Vints. Not sure why this wasn't in Alpie's list ... nor why I couldn't find it online The reviews on Amazon are hilarious, however. Can the box-set be acquired elsewhere ?

Well, I suppose one could try approaching a marketplace vendor directly. However, in doing so one loses the Amazon transaction protection measures. Discogs?

[Maclintick]

Well, I suppose one could try approaching a marketplace vendor directly. However, in doing so one loses the Amazon transaction protection measures. Discogs?

Amazon have triumphed, I'm afraid. Duly ordered.

[Nick Armstrong]

... yes it was good.

I have more time for Goodman ....

Only caught up with it today. Yes, good BAL.

And me too: if anything, the Goodman was the one that tickled my ears most (the harpsichord didn’t dismay, certainly not on the radio to which I was listening).

What did dismay was not finding that version on Qobuz (tho searching for “Hanover Band” came up with lashings of JC Bach conducted by wor Tony, so that was a tangential bonus)

[Bryn]

Only caught up with it today. Yes, good BAL.

And me too: if anything, the Goodman was the one that tickled my ears most (the harpsichord didn’t dismay, certainly not on the radio to which I was listening).

What did dismay was not finding that version on Qobuz (tho searching for “Hanover Band” came up with lashings of JC Bach conducted by wor Tony, so that was a tangential bonus)

It's a Hyperion recording, so no streaming but downloadable from their site: https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55125 or the disc can be found, used: very good, for a little less on amazon.co.uk

[Nick Armstrong]

It's a Hyperion recording, so no streaming but downloadable from their site: https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55125 or the disc can be found, used: very good, for a little less on amazon.co.uk

Ohhh... it’s Hyperion... I’d assumed CPO like a lot of the group’s recordings. Thanks Bryn

[Bryn]

Ohhh... it’s Hyperion... I’d assumed CPO like a lot of the group’s recordings. Thanks Bryn

It's even more complicated than that. Some of the Hanover Band/Goodman Haydn Symphonies are/were on Nimbus. I don't think I have any of them. I will have a look to see of any of them might be on QOBUZ. Hmm. No such luck.