BaL 2.06.18 - Schumann: Symphony no. 4 in D minor

[HighlandDougie]

I haven't heard an lp Szell 4th but I remember all the the Szell Schumann as sounding ghastly,

Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Four-Symphonies-Manfred-Overture/dp/B0000029PC/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1376905287&sr=1-2&keywords=schumann+symphonies+george+szell

I think that I said in an earlier post that they sound as if they were recorded yesterday - O.K. maybe not yesterday butl definitely not 55 years ago. A great set of performances, in really good sound.

[richardfinegold]

Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Four-Symphonies-Manfred-Overture/dp/B0000029PC/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1376905287&sr=1-2&keywords=schumann+symphonies+george+szell

I think that I said in an earlier post that they sound as if they were recorded yesterday - O.K. maybe not yesterday butl definitely not 55 years ago. A great set of performances, in really good sound.

I own the set that you mention, HD, and I apologize because I was unclear in my post. This CD remastering sounds wonderful and were somewhat of a revelation after the nasty sounding lps.
I did read somewhere that Szell did touch up Schumann's Orchestration a bit, and also that he thought the recording balance needed to be tweaked, because he thought that 1950s replay equipment would make Schumann's orchestration appear particularly opaque; the original engineers tried to defer to his wishes. The remastered CDs that we both own apparently remixed the masters to undo Szell's interventions at the recording console.
I listened to Barenboim and his Berlin Orchestra in #4 last night, right after Karajan. The playing and the sonics are first rate, and the Scherzo is very well done. The rest of the recording is episodic. DB doesn't grasp the architecture of the piece as Karajan and Szell do (in their different ways).

[gurnemanz]

It's good to have Gardiner with both versions. I also have Masur/LPO who favours the original and gives us a very lucid performance. Brahms preferred the original and I think I do, (My verdict might be slightly less noteworthy). It seems to have suffered by receiving an indifferent first performance at the Gewandhaus and also being upstaged at this rather formidable concert by, amongst another things, Clara doing her thing and at the end receiving a frenzied ovatation for her duet with Franz Liszt. Under other circumstances the symphony might not have been revised at all.

[alycidon]

I've always loved the Schumann symphonies and have the Arte Nova offering with the Zurich Tonhalle conducted by David Zinman. Along with Bach and Mendelssohn, RS is up there with my favourite composers. The Schumann Piano Concerto has been my absolute favourite piece of music since, at the age of 16, I purchase the Grieg, and found the Schumann on the flipside. Serendipity!

[LaurieWatt]

Thanks for the hard work Alpie. I was searching for a video version and Amazon didn't list two of the ones that you mentioned.

I'm listening to Karajan right now. Pretty darn good.

My eyesight not being quite what it was, didn't pick up Barenboim and the Berlin Staatskapelle in EA's list...

[richardfinegold]

My eyesight not being quite what it was, didn't pick up Barenboim and the Berlin Staatskapelle in EA's list...

I don't know if it was on EA's list. Does that mean it is verboten to discuss it? I may not understand the rules here.

[teamsaint]

Thanks for the hard work Alpie. I was searching for a video version and Amazon didn't list two of the ones that you mentioned.

I'm listening to Karajan right now. Pretty darn good.

Yep, I have been giving this a listen tonight , and it is really very good, with lovely sound.
I think I would prefer the scherzo a bit more fluid, more relaxed but with extra fizz, if that makes sense. But in any case,a really excellent recording.

[Bryn]

Am I right in thinking all Schumann's symphonies were re-orchestrated by Mahler, and that it is these versions that one always hears today?

S-A

One can hear the Mahler re-orchestrations, but they are usually programmed as such, not simply as Schumann. The wonderful Mackerras performances referred to by makropulos earlier in this thread used Schumann's original orchestrations. Must give the whole survey another spin, including the concertos.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

BaL 2.06.18 - Schumann: Symphony no. 4 in D minor

9.30
Building a Library: Schumann's Symphony no. 4 with William Mival.

Schumann' Symphony no. 4 in D minor was first completed in 1841 and then heavily revised in 1851. The composer's widow, Clara, later claimed that the first version had just been a sketch, which was only fully orchestrated in the second version. However, it turns out that this was not true, and Brahms, no less greatly, preferred the earlier, more lightly scored version.

Available versions:-

MDR Sinfonieorchester, Hermann Abendroth
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra, Marc Andreae
New York Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir John Barbirolli
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Daniel Barenboim
Staatskapelle Berlin, Daniel Barenboim
Robert-Schumann-Philharmonie, Frank Beermann (SACD)
New York Philharmonic Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein *
Wiener Philharmoniker, Leonard Bernstein
Wiener Philharmoniker, Leonard Bernstein (DVD)
Wiener Philharmoniker, Karl Böhm
Cappella Aquileia conductor, Marcus Bosch (SACD)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Adrian Boult
London Symphony Orchestra, Yondani Butt
Philharmonia Orchestra, Guido Cantelli
Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra, Aldo Cercato (arr. Mahler)
Münchner Philharmoniker, Sergiu Celibidache
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Riccardo Chailly *
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Riccardo Chailly (DVD)
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Riccardo Chailly *
Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, Riccardo Chailly (orch. Mahler)
Orchestre National de la Radioffusion Françcaise, André Cluytens
Swedish Chamber Orchestra, Thomas Dausgaard (SACD)
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra, Christoph Eschenbach
Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Lawrence Foster (SACD)
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwangler
Lucerne Festival Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwängler *
Swiss Festival Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwangler (SACD)
Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, John Eliot Gardiner (both versions)
Odense Symfoniorkester, Simon Gaudenz (SACD)
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink
Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus Harnoncourt
NDR Sinfonieorchester, Thomas Hengelbrock
Orchestre des Champs-Élysées, Philippe Herreweghe
WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln, Heinz Holliger
Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra, Konstantin Iliev
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Marek Janowski
Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, Paavo Järvi (DVD/Blu-ray)
Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Armin Jordan
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert Von Karajan (DG)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert Von Karajan (Warner)
Staatskapelle Dresden, Herbert von Karajan
Wiener Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan *
Moravian Philharmonic Orchestra, Noriaki Kitamura *
Philharmonia Orchestra, Otto Klemperer
Philadelphia Orchestra, Otto Klemperer*
Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, Paul Kletzki
Dresden Staatskapelle, Hans Knappertsbusch
Hans Knappertsbusch, Wiener Philharmoniker
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra, Ken-ichiro Kobayashi *
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Franz Konwitschny
London Symphony Orchestra, Josef Krips
Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Rafael Kubelik
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Rafael Kubelik
Haydn Orchestra of Bolzano and Trento, Gustav Kuhn
The Tasmanian Symphony, Sebastian Lang-Lessing *
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Erich Leinsdorf
Symphony Orchestra of the Südwestfunk Baden-Baden, Erich Leinsdorf (DVD/Blu-ray)
Berliner Philharmoniker, James Levine
Philadelphia Orchestra, James Levine *
Vienna Symphony Orchestra, Fabio Luisi
NHK Symphony Orchestra, Jun Markl (SACD)
Academy of St Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner
Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart des SWR, Sir Neville Marriner
French National Radio Orchestra, Jean Martinon
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Kurt Masur
Wiener Philharmoniker, Zubin Mehta
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Monteux
BBC Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Monteux
Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart des SWR, Hans Müller-Kray *
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch
French National Orchestra, Charles Munch *
New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti *
Wiener Philharmoniker, Riccardo Muti
Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Yannick Nézet-Séguin
London Classical Players, Sir Roger Norrington
Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart des SWR, Sir Roger Norrington
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Grzegorz Nowak
Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra, Sakari Oramo *
Orchestra dell’Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia, Antonio Pappano
Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Paul Paray
Sapporo Symphony Orchestra, Max Pommer *
Berliner Philharmoniker, Simon Rattle (SACD)
Estonian Symphony Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky
Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra, Rico Saccani *
BBC Philharmonic Orchestra, Kurt Sanderling (DVD)
Das Bayerische Staatsorchester, Wolfgang Sawallisch (SACD)
Dresden Staatskapelle, Wolfgang Sawallisch
Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, Michael Schønwandt
Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic, Michael Schønwandt (SACD)
Radio Kamer Filharmonie, Michael Schønwandt
Seattle Symphony Orchestra, Gerard Schwarz *
Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra, Jerzy Semkow
Staatskapelle Dresden, Giuseppe Sinopoli
German Radio Philharmonic, Stanislav Skrowaczewski
Authentic Orchestra, Derek Solomons *
Vienna Philharmonic, Sir Georg Solti
Deutsche Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz, Karl-Heinz Steffens (SACD)
Cleveland Orchestra, George Szell
Cleveland Orchestra, George Szell *
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Klaus Tennstedt
Philharmonia Orchestra, Christian Thielemann
San Francisco Symphony, Michael Tilson Thomas (SACD)
Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Robin Ticciati
Kölner Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester, Hans Vonk *
NBC Symphony Orchestra, Bruno Walter
NDR Sinfonieorchester, Günter Wand
Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra Kosice, Johannes Wildner *
Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, Antoni Wit
Orchestra of the Swan, Kenneth Woods
Orchestre de Chambre de Lausanne, Christian Zacharias (SACD)
Northern Sinfonia, Thomas Zehetmair
Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra, Hans Zender *
Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich, David Zinman



* download only

[Beef Oven!]

Furtwangler's BPO Schumann 4 is possibly the best ever recording of any classical music available to mankind, so it stands to reason that it has to be the best Schumann 4

[BBMmk2]

Furtwangler's BPO Schumann 4 is possibly the best ever recording of any classical music available to mankind, so it stands to reason that it has to be the best Schumann 4

Only available as download?

[vinteuil]

.

... I wouldn't want to be without Roy Goodman and the Hanover Band -

http://amzn.eu/4UINNwP

.

[Beef Oven!]

Only available as download?

Dunno BBM. But Like Derek & The Dominos' 'Layla' it's a bona fide classic

[jayne lee wilson]

I presume this will be the 1851 revision, as no mention is made of the 1841/51 distinction - or will recommendations be given for both? There are several excellent recordings of the original version available, not least Holliger, Dausgaard, Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Rattle... several of those have recorded both versions. Especially given its leaner scoring, the 1841 Original lends itself particularly well to the HIPPs approach.

You could (perhaps should) finish up with 5 or 6 choices really: Symphony Orchestra, Chamber Orchestra, Period Instrument, including the 1841/51 editions.

Something like....

SO: WDR/Holliger (1841 & 1851); Zurich Tonhalle/Zinman, BPO/Harnoncourt, BPO/Furtwangler, Dresden SO/Sawallisch, BRSO/Kubelik....(all 1851)
CO: COE/Harnoncourt (1841), COE/Nezet-Seguin, SCO/Ticciati...(1851)
HIPPS: ORR/Gardiner...(1841 & 1851)...(I never yet heard the Goodman).

Personal favourites in bold ....of course, a truly comprehensive survey should include the fascinating Mahler arrangements too. Hard to choose between the two very different ones available, but best to have both: Bergen SO/Ceccato or LGO/Chailly.

It is a rich and deep catalogue, but as for choosing just one........ I'll see if I can narrow mine down to one-per-category later....
....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Only available as download?

No, that's the Lucerne one.