BaL 27.03.21 - Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 24 in C minor K.491

[Dave2002]

Lucy Parham was quietly authoritative, I thought, but how does anyone survey the wealth of versions out there by referring only to eight?

...which she prefaced by saying something along the lines of, "if you want to hear it as Mozart did". That's a bit of a claim for even the Hippest of Hipsters!

I'm not sure that I'd criticise Lucy too much - she is very knowledgeable, but the concept of the programme may be at fault. If there are at least a hundred performances to consider, then how are they to be dealt with in a programme lasting less than an hour? Perhaps a selection of twelve might just work - say including around six fairly modern recent recordings , a couple of older ones, and maybe three HIPP or period/authentic ones. The initial chosen set should also be justified, giving reasons why some others have been excluded. Doesn't the BBC give reviewers like this any guidance? Perhaps not!

[Goon525]

According to the Presto website, Goode is download only and Bilson a Presto CD. I guess that reviewers (or AMcG) are not allowed to mention Presto CDs as this might be seen as a form of advertising and/or a preference for one retailer over others. Several of the other recordings discussed are also download only, which is not the preferred option for most classical buyers. When will the producers of this programme, and the reviewers, wake up to the fact that CD is still the preferred option for the classical market and recommend at least one single CD option?

Please quote supporting evidence for your statement that CD is the preferred option for the classical market.... Are you sure you’re not baselessly extrapolating from your own preference?

[ardcarp]

I'm not sure that I'd criticise Lucy too much - she is very knowledgeable, but the concept of the programme may be at fault. If there are at least a hundred performances to consider, then how are they to be dealt with in a programme lasting less than an hour? Perhaps a selection of twelve might just work - say including around six fairly modern recent recordings , a couple of older ones, and maybe three HIPP or period/authentic ones.

Dave, I agree entirely.

It seems to me highly contentious to suggest that ornamentation was used to "compensate for the legato issue". Rubato is also an expressive device used widely today with modern instruments too, so it is hard to see this or ornamentation being an infill for missing sustains on early pianos.

Jayne, I agree with you about rubato, but have to say that ornamentation, especially trills and sometimes arpeggiation, do seem necessary on the harpsichord to make up for lack of sustain. I guess players brought up to the harpsichord would transfer some of their skills (old habits?) to the fortepiano or early piano. And it is a fact that the latter do not sustain a note (except perhaps in the bass) as long as a modern piano. (The same even applies even to Bluthner and Broadwood grands made in the last quarter of the 19th century. I've been lucky enough to accompany on both. They have their delights, but two obvious factors are a 'weak' treble and lack of sustain cf the modern piano.)

[jayne lee wilson]

Almost on my way to bed after further scrutiny of Goode and Brautigam, I noticed the 2002 Sinfonia Varsovia/Piotr Anderszewski (Virgin CD) on the shelf... so I just started with the allegro.... wow!
Anderszewski directing with terrific fire and passion, strikingly individual in the solo part and a startlingly adventurous broodingly powerful cadenza.... an intense reading emphasising the darker side......

Compelling bar-to-bar...! Do seek it out...
The Cat must be getting lonely up there... will continue later....

[Goon525]

I’ve just listened to the Goode. It’s excellent, beautifully played, correctly proportioned and recorded (unlike, say, de Larrocha/Solti), straight down the middle interpretation but without any negatives pertaining to that - in other words, a perfect BaL recommendation. I thought Lucy Parham’s short list a little eccentric, but no argument with her choice. I must say, though, that Jayne’s comments on Anderszewski make me want to give that a spin. I really enjoyed his recent Bach extracts from the 48.

[cloughie]

Please quote supporting evidence for your statement that CD is the preferred option for the classical market.... Are you sure you’re not baselessly extrapolating from your own preference?

Many not most, perhaps a safer statement.

[MickyD]

In reply to Jayne’s lengthy post where she accurately summarises scholarship on late 18th century performance practice - what I really wanted to hear today on BAL were all the various cadenzas and improvised fill ins to work out whether I could live with hearing them more than once !
I would love to hear a live perf where the pianist went in having prepared nothing ( apart from the written notes obvs] and lived on the edge....

Robert Levin has usually performed live Mozart in this way - Chris Hogwood said that he never knew what Levin was going to come up with each time he performed (and neither did Levin, I think!) It was the same, I understand, for the recordings he made with the AAM, though of course those were frozen for posterity.

[Goon525]

Many not most, perhaps a safer statement.

I wouldn’t argue with that. I’ve provided statistics here before demonstrating that streaming is now the overwhelming choice of the music listening market generally; and I’d accept that classical listeners have probably been a bit slower than others to adopt streaming - but I haven’t seen figures specifically for classical, and I suspect that ‘Callmepaul’ hasn’t either.

[cloughie]

I wouldn’t argue with that. I’ve provided statistics here before demonstrating that streaming is now the overwhelming choice of the music listening market generally; and I’d accept that classical listeners have probably been a bit slower than others to adopt streaming - but I haven’t seen figures specifically for classical, and I suspect that ‘Callmepaul’ hasn’t either.

All depends on your personal Ludd:Tech number!

[kernelbogey]

Robert Levin has usually performed live Mozart in this way - Chris Hogwood said that he never knew what Levin was going to come up with each time he performed (and neither did Levin, I think!) It was the same, I understand, for the recordings he made with the AAM, though of course those were frozen for posterity.

I heard him do exactly that in a Mozart concerto (forgotten which!) with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. At the end of the movement he said to the audience 'You won't ever hear that again'!

[cloughie]

I heard him do exactly that in a Mozart concerto (forgotten which!) with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. At the end of the movement he said to the audience 'You won't ever hear that again'!

Love it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I heard him do exactly that in a Mozart concerto (forgotten which!) with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. At the end of the movement he said to the audience 'You won't ever hear that again'!

In a live performance, it can give you the wow factor, but on recordings, it can become extremely irritating on repetition.

[jayne lee wilson]

Mozart 24/Goode/Orpheus/Nonesuch CD

A natural perspective here, neither too close nor distant, the piano set with or just slightly ahead of the orchestra. Well-balanced in itself, very slightly warm and soft-edged in tone. Winds/piano dialoguing nicely, neither imposing upon or dominating the other. Right away, you perceive this reading as deeply thoughtful and fastidiously prepared. Everything in its place, nothing smudged or approximated. Tempi fastidiously judged.

The 1st movement cadenza is by Badura-Skoda and is both expressive and searching; really contributes to the distinctiveness of the reading.
This movement is beautifully poised between foreboding and relief; hard to fault on its own terms, but some may prefer a more overtly stormy and intense approach. A chamber orchestra it may be but never lacks power or weight in the climaxes; warm strings but never too full; the characteristic cool precision of the Orpheus very apparent, and precisely mirrored in Goode’s response.

The larghetto is lovely here: quite Romantic, with a feel of tempo giusto, towards the slower-espressivo end of the spectrum with a nicely counterpoised rhythmic lift. But as it went on I wondered if it weren’t a shade too mild; I was starting to crave sharper wind/piano exchanges, undoubtedly elegant and very beautiful as they are.

So I was hoping for greater intensity in the finale. I didn't get that, but further deeply considered, precisely-played introspection. I wished there had been more contrast between brighter and darker episodes. The moderate tempi throughout the work, without much rubato or variation in pulse (or in mood, through the variations themselves) intruded more in this movement: there isn’t much missing exactly; but it all feels a little predictable. Second time around though, I warmed to it; the climactic moments are lively, the precision admirable, and it may prove a “grower” to some temperaments; but I wanted more fire in the attack.
(Back to Brautigam/Willens, and you’re up another level for intensity and concentration; the expressive articulacy, sharper more varied timbres, subtler phrasing and microdynamics of the period instruments and fortepiano especially telling here).

Was Goode chosen as a “safe library choice” …?
Possibly so, but the problem for me is that it is sometimes a shade too
unadventurous on its own terms.…
Often lovely as it is, it tends to leave me wanting more (even on its own terms...)...…

***
I did continue with Anderszewski, and it is extraordinary - but I need longer with it, I forgot to set the bedroom clock (no wonder The Cat was getting at me - but how did she know?) and I'm running late, and F1 is back at 1600....
(G-Review, 4/2002, DJF - very thoughtful as you'd expect, and pretty coincidental to my first impressions.....)

[CallMePaul]

I wouldn’t argue with that. I’ve provided statistics here before demonstrating that streaming is now the overwhelming choice of the music listening market generally; and I’d accept that classical listeners have probably been a bit slower than others to adopt streaming - but I haven’t seen figures specifically for classical, and I suspect that ‘Callmepaul’ hasn’t either.

I was slow in switching from LP to CD and only made the switch when new LPs ceased to be issued around 1990 and many shops ceased stocking those that remained. As I do not use hand-held devices for any Internet work I do not download music. In any case, I like to have notes and where relevant texts/ translations for the music I buy. As far as I am aware, these are often but not always provided with downloads (eg some downloads on Presto are accompanied by "no digital booklet included"). I have never looked at a streaming service so cannot comment on these.

[Richard Barrett]

I like to have notes and where relevant texts/ translations

At the risk of stating the obvious, there is on the internet usually far more information about any given piece of music (including not only texts and translations but also full scores) than could possibly be fitted into a CD booklet!