BaL 6.03.21 - Debussy: Études pour piano

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Many thanks for drawing that Monique Haas 10-CD Collection to my attention, gurnemanz. I had forgotten that the Etudes were within it. they may not outshine Uchida’s recording but they are idiomatic and dynamic.

It’s interesting to note the number of eminent pianists who have not recorded these works.

[verismissimo]

Listening again to Uchida … are they really as terrifyingly difficult to play as they sound?

[Bryn]

Many thanks for drawing that Monique Haas 10-CD Collection to my attention, gurnemanz. I had forgotten that the Etudes were within it. they may not outshine Uchida’s recording but they are idiomatic and dynamic.

Given the way they are listed on the back of the box, one might be wary. Just what do they mean by "TWELVE ETUDES FOR PIANO - BOOK 2"? (My emphasis.) There are only six études in the second volume. How many are actually on disc 1 of the set?

[Bryn]

Listening again to Uchida … are they really as terrifyingly difficult to play as they sound?

According to the Wikipedia entry, yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tudes_(Debussy)

[gurnemanz]

Given the way they are listed on the back of the box, one might be wary. Just what do they mean by "TWELVE ETUDES FOR PIANO - BOOK 2"? (My emphasis.) There are only six études in the second volume. How many are actually on disc 1 of the set?

Error on back of box. (Accent also missed from Études). It contains all twelve and they sound fine. You wouldnt buy this box for its presentation but it contains lots of very worthwhile recordings, not all standard fare, eg Hindemith Konzertmusik for Piano, Brass and Harp.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Listening again to Uchida … are they really as terrifyingly difficult to play as they sound?

I think they are reckoned to be more difficult than Chopin but “easier “ than the Ligeti or some of the Liszt Etudes.They have a disconcertingly black appearance on the page - lots of semidemiquavers which is psychologically very intimidating . Chopin really tries not to go beyond semiquavers ( and ups the metronome marking instead).
They are a weird beast Etudes because if you have good octaves the Chopin octave study won’t be as hard as it is for some one who finds them tiring . Some Chopin Etudes are just about playable by grade 8 pianists others are diploma plus standard. For the avoidance of doubt I can’t do much more than stumble through maybe 60 - 70 per cent of the Chopin . I don’t think I’ll ever be able to play the minor third study.

[Bryn]

Error on back of box. (Accent also missed from Études). It contains all twelve and they sound fine. You wouldnt buy this box for its presentation but it contains lots of very worthwhile recordings, not all standard fare, eg Hindemith Konzertmusik for Piano, Brass and Harp.

Thanks. I had ordered anyway. Due for delivery tomorrow.

[Richard Barrett]

(Accent also missed from Études).

That may have been deliberate. I seem to remember having been taught not to use accents on capital letters in French. However the Académie doesn't approve: "On ne peut que déplorer que l'usage des accents sur les majuscules soit flottant. On observe dans les textes manuscrits une tendance certaine à l'omission des accents. En typographie, parfois, certains suppriment tous les accents sur les capitales sous prétexte de modernisme, en fait pour réduire les frais de composition." This is one for Pedants' Corner maybe.

Hindemith Konzertmusik for Piano, Brass and Harp.

There are two harps in fact. This is a strange sort of a piece, very different from the other Konzertmusik for strings and brass. It's basically a piano solo with a few fairly uninteresting contributions from the brass, while the harp parts are so perfunctory one wonders why they were included at all. I'm generally in favour of Hindemith but this is the kind of thing that gives his music a bad name!

[vinteuil]

I seem to remember having been taught not to use accents on capital letters in French. However the Académie doesn't approve: "On ne peut que déplorer que l'usage des accents sur les majuscules soit flottant. On observe dans les textes manuscrits une tendance certaine à l'omission des accents. En typographie, parfois, certains suppriment tous les accents sur les capitales sous prétexte de modernisme, en fait pour réduire les frais de composition." This is one for Pedants' Corner maybe.

You are right to quote the Académie française.

There are (of course) exceptions - for instance, not on initialisms/acronyms, hence Organisation de Coopération et de Développement Économiques but OCDE. And I think Canada and Suisse romande have their own rules.

But as you say, for pedants in their paradise...

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_des_majuscules_en_fran%C3%A7ais#Accentuation_des_majuscules_et_des_capitales

https://www.druide.com/fr/enquetes/faut-il-accentuer-les-majuscules-et-les-capitales

.

[Richard Barrett]

You are right to quote the Académie française.

From your French Wikipedia link: "l'accent a pleine valeur orthographique". That is fairly clear. And indeed, as gurnemanz will confirm, it's also true for the Umlaut in German, which arguably matters more. It seems to me that English speakers are a lot more assiduous about getting their French accents in the right places than they are about their Umlaute. (oops, I nearly wrote Umläute...)

Ummm... what was this thread about again? Oh yes. I wonder why so many people seem to think that Mitsuko Uchida's recording of these pieces is so much better than any of the others.

[Pulcinella]

From your French Wikipedia link: "l'accent a pleine valeur orthographique". That is fairly clear. And indeed, as gurnemanz will confirm, it's also true for the Umlaut in German, which arguably matters more. It seems to me that English speakers are a lot more assiduous about getting their French accents in the right places than they are about their Umlaute. (oops, I nearly wrote Umläute...)

Ummm... what was this thread about again? Oh yes. I wonder why so many people seem to think that Mitsuko Uchida's recording of these pieces is so much better than any of the others.

Maybe you can credit/blame jlw's beloved Gramophone:

Her playing carries blazing conviction at every turn, and its sheer virtuosity is breathtaking ... Vivid communication is helped by a fairly forward, resonant recording, which captures every nuance without detriment to overall perspective ... supreme in every instance, and in pretty well every department, be it refinement of sonority, accent, timing, characterization or sheer dexterity.

This is copied from the Presto site, which rather oddly lists two 'available' versions:
one is their own Presto CD

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8078669--debussy-etudes-pour-piano-12

but the other (cheaper) is a Philips Original reissue (though currently out of stock)

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7944105--debussy-etudes-pour-piano-12#reviews

[vinteuil]

.

... many second-hand Uchida de Bussy CDs here at ridiculously cheap prices -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=uchida+debussy&i=popular&ref=nb_sb_noss

.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Maybe you can credit/blame jlw's beloved Gramophone:



This is copied from the Presto site, which rather oddly lists two 'available' versions:
one is their own Presto CD

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8078669--debussy-etudes-pour-piano-12

but the other (cheaper) is a Philips Original reissue (though currently out of stock)
https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...ano-12#reviews

Uchida is also the rosette selection in the Penguin Guide (96 edition and I suspect later) . That guide has a lot of influence still.

[Ein Heldenleben]

.

... many second-hand Uchida de Bussy CDs here at ridiculously cheap prices -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=uchida+debussy&i=popular&ref=nb_sb_noss

.

Not a fan of the cover . Will a Lieder recital have a close up of the singer’s mouth ?

[edashtav]

“There are two harps in fact. This is a strange sort of a piece, very different from the other Konzertmusik for strings and brass. It's basically a piano solo with a few fairly uninteresting contributions from the brass, while the harp parts are so perfunctory one wonders why they were included at all. I'm generally in favour of Hindemith but this is the kind of thing that gives his music a bad name!” (Richard Barrett)

Harping on, are we?
Yes, we are for I concur - the piece is perfunctory Hindemith.
It’s as if he was writing Gebrauschsmusik,
Which we Brits loosely translated as Utility Music.

But, there are at least three of us on this site who believe that the best of Hindemith will survive.
( and I enjoy his recording of AB’s Seventh more than Jochum’s best efforts.)