BaL 6.03.21 - Debussy: Études pour piano

[visualnickmos]

Uchida is also the rosette selection in the Penguin Guide (96 edition and I suspect later) . That guide has a lot of influence still.

I'm always dubious about an ambiguous sentence like that; it has many possible meanings.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm always dubious about an ambiguous sentence like that; it has many possible meanings.

What’s ambiguous about it ?

[cloughie]

Interesting - for someone who had, apparently, rave reviews of the Etudes, there is no other Debussy in her recorded repertoire.

[Bryn]

Two boxed sets which include the Études arrived this evening: Jörg Demus (not on the list) and Monique Haas.

[visualnickmos]

What’s ambiguous about it ?

Simply - eg.
1) do people trust the guide as the all-knowing oracle?

[jayne lee wilson]

Simply - eg.
1) do people trust the guide as the all-knowing oracle?

"Has a lot of influence"

"All-knowing oracle"

.....scarcely equivalent are they....

Those of us who discovered Gramophone and the Stereo Record Guide in the local library soon recognised the authority of both. Vast and arcane knowledge lightly worn, precise comparison in some very eloquent prose, enthusiastic and musically hedonist.
Crucially we held respect for them, even when we became more experienced listeners and disagreed with some of their judgments and ratings. The only other such publication to approach the Penguin was the necessarily selective Gramophone Good CD Guide.

Thicker and even more unwieldy pretenders began to appear, but a brief bookshop perusal of their commentary upon known recordings was enough to leave them back on the shelf.
No authority. Incomplete coverage. Poor prose.

As the CD became cheaper and proliferated, the 1998 Penguin Guide to Bargain CDs was a revelation. Then one found one's way to the wafer thin pages of the vast, floppy RED, which (of course) had references to the G-Review dates in its listings...
With Radio 3 Record Review (at least, until the 1990s), it was a network of connective tissues that made profound and helpful sense.

[Edgy 2]

"Has a lot of influence"

"All-knowing oracle"

.....scarcely equivalent are they....

Those of us who discovered Gramophone and the Stereo Record Guide in the local library soon recognised the authority of both. Vast and arcane knowledge lightly worn, precise comparison in some very eloquent prose, enthusiastic and musically hedonist.
Crucially we held respect for them, even when we became more experienced listeners and disagreed with some of their judgments and ratings. The only other such publication to approach the Penguin was the necessarily selective Gramophone Good CD Guide.

Thicker and even more unwieldy pretenders began to appear, but a brief bookshop perusal of their commentary upon known recordings was enough to leave them back on the shelf.
No authority. Incomplete coverage. Poor prose.

As the CD became cheaper and proliferated, the 1998 Penguin Guide to Bargain CDs was a revelation. Then one found one's way to the wafer thin pages of the vast, floppy RED, which (of course) had references to the G-Review dates in its listings...
With Radio 3 Record Review (at least, until the 1990s), it was a network of connective tissues that made profound and helpful sense.

Those were the days
Does anyone remember a short lived Gramophone spin off magazine devoted to bargain priced Cds, maybe called Classic CD or Classics ? mid 90s possibly (or have I dreamt this ? )

[Ein Heldenleben]

"Has a lot of influence"

"All-knowing oracle"

.....scarcely equivalent are they....

Those of us who discovered Gramophone and the Stereo Record Guide in the local library soon recognised the authority of both. Vast and arcane knowledge lightly worn, precise comparison in some very eloquent prose, enthusiastic and musically hedonist.
Crucially we held respect for them, even when we became more experienced listeners and disagreed with some of their judgments and ratings. The only other such publication to approach the Penguin was the necessarily selective Gramophone Good CD Guide.

Thicker and even more unwieldy pretenders began to appear, but a brief bookshop perusal of their commentary upon known recordings was enough to leave them back on the shelf.
No authority. Incomplete coverage. Poor prose.

As the CD became cheaper and proliferated, the 1998 Penguin Guide to Bargain CDs was a revelation. Then one found one's way to the wafer thin pages of the vast, floppy RED, which (of course) had references to the G-Review dates in its listings...
With Radio 3 Record Review (at least, until the 1990s), it was a network of connective tissues that made profound and helpful sense.

Couldn’t have put it better ..in fact I’ve just bought a copy of the 2006 guide to replace my 1996 one which I guess is a bit out of date
Though the guide reviewers did have a bit of an obsession with HvK .

[Bryn]

The difficulty level of these Études is evidenced by the title offered for the final one in the 1st Book in the Demus box: "pour les hit doigts". Shades of the piano teacher's ruler in the knuckles.

[visualnickmos]

Couldn’t have put it better ..in fact I’ve just bought a copy of the 2006 guide to replace my 1996 one which I guess is a bit out of date
Though the guide reviewers did have a bit of an obsession with HvK .

Exactly. Which is why I gave up years ago with the Penguin guide - I assume that's what you are referencing.

[jayne lee wilson]

Exactly. Which is why I gave up years ago with the Penguin guide - I assume that's what you are referencing.

Wood, trees, babies, bathwater.....

Even by 1998, the Bargain Guide was full of Naxos, Arte Nova, Mercury, RCA, Sony SBK. EMI Forte, Double Decca...HvK didn't feature on those much.
For someone with little money, having only just acquired her first CD Player, it was astounding. Into town each payday for my precious, meagre haul!

I still recall my excitement going back again and again for the Sonys when I first discovered Szell and the Cleveland...

There was a classic 50s-70s stereo inheritance for the early guides, where you would have, say, Karajan, Klemperer, Haitink, Solti or Ansermet to choose from for larger symphonic works. Dorati too. It wasn't an obsession with any individual - it was how the world was.
Like the Gramophone (and its archive today, almost 100 years old..) the Guide was, and is, a vital part of the history of recorded music - of music itself, really.
But the coverage was clearly and impressively enlarged in the 1990s and 21st C Guides, before the sheer volume of releases, the broadening of repertoire, and the multiplicity of labels made the concept of vast comprehensive telephone-directory-style guides less feasible. Over to you, RED/Gramophone...

But the Stereo Record Guides and the Penguin Guides were a rich musical culture; they taught many of us an accessible critical vocabulary and remained a great read long after they were current. They still are, at whichever page you open them.....

[MickyD]

Those were the days
Does anyone remember a short lived Gramophone spin off magazine devoted to bargain priced Cds, maybe called Classic CD or Classics ? mid 90s possibly (or have I dreamt this ? )

Hmm, no, but I do remember another very short-lived (4 issues) magazine from Gramophone (A5 size) called Early Music or somesuch. A real shame it never survived, it was a pleasure to read and had some excellent articles inside - so much so that I have kept the existing copies.

[LHC]

Hmm, no, but I do remember another very short-lived (4 issues) magazine from Gramophone (A5 size) called Early Music or somesuch. A real shame it never survived, it was a pleasure to read and had some excellent articles inside - so much so that I have kept the existing copies.

I think there were a few spin off magazine produced in the late 90s, most of which were short-lived. I think there might have been a world music magazine, and I still have 13 copies of its opera spin-off International Opera Collectors (that may well be the complete set). It too was and is a pleasure to read, and included more in depth articles than were possible in Gramophone.

[Goon525]

Those were the days
Does anyone remember a short lived Gramophone spin off magazine devoted to bargain priced Cds, maybe called Classic CD or Classics ? mid 90s possibly (or have I dreamt this ? )

Yes I do. I think a little earlier , late 80s/early 90s, edited by Rob Cowan. Reflected an outpouring of transfers from analogue to mid and budget priced CDs. Understandably, lacked longevity once the CD explosion died down. I think Classic CD was a competitive publication which lasted several years, edited, if memory serves, by Rob Ainsley, who incidentally has a piece in the current BBC MM.

On a more general note, I share Jayne’s love of Gramophone, having bought and devoured every issue since my first, July 1973. It’s great having access now to the entire archive via my iPad. FWIW, I think the current panel of reviewers is strong, and the magazine appears to be heading toward its centenary in 2023 in pretty good shape. Of course one doesn’t always agree with its conclusions, but it maintains a high standard, higher than BBC MM, although I do read that too.

I always bought the Penguin guides too, but my respect for them steadily diminished as its quality went down. The problem with having only three reviewers was that only one of them, Robert Layton, had much gravitas. Ivan March (although he put the thing together) was a hopelessly unreliable reviewer, and as for Ted - who to be fair did write some pretty good reviews in G, although perhaps not of the Lenny West Side Story. Have I retold the story here of a friend of mine who asked EG at a party how he managed to review so many records? At the time Ted was the Guardian’s main man as well as heavily represented in G. His response - “With many of them, I just listen to the crucial moments of a work” - which boggled my mind then and still does.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Wood, trees, babies, bathwater.....

Even by 1998, the Bargain Guide was full of Naxos, Arte Nova, Mercury, RCA, Sony SBK. EMI Forte, Double Decca...HvK didn't feature on those much.
For someone with little money, having only just acquired her first CD Player, it was astounding. Into town each payday for my precious, meagre haul!

I still recall my excitement going back again and again for the Sonys when I first discovered Szell and the Cleveland...

There was a classic 50s-70s stereo inheritance for the early guides, where you would have, say, Karajan, Klemperer, Haitink, Solti or Ansermet to choose from for larger symphonic works. Dorati too. It wasn't an obsession with any individual - it was how the world was.
Like the Gramophone (and its archive today, almost 100 years old..) the Guide was, and is, a vital part of the history of recorded music - of music itself, really.
But the coverage was clearly and impressively enlarged in the 1990s and 21st C Guides, before the sheer volume of releases, the broadening of repertoire, and the multiplicity of labels made the concept of vast comprehensive telephone-directory-style guides less feasible. Over to you, RED/Gramophone...

But the Stereo Record Guides and the Penguin Guides were a rich musical culture; they taught many of us an accessible critical vocabulary and remained a great read long after they were current. They still are, at whichever page you open them.....

All the more reason to look forward to my 2006 edition arriving . I should add I have no problem with H von K . I must have bought at least a winch for one of his yachts with all the money I’ve spent on his recordings . On a serious note you are absolutely right about the guide both as a pretty reliable guide (you could almost tell you were / weren’t going to enjoy the recording from the blurb) and a grounding in music/ recording history .
It was well nigh essential because in those days a CD cost a king’s ransom and if you were into opera like me a new set was a major outlay .

Now in a telling illustration of what’s happened to the music recording business I’ve bought it to help navigate my way through the cornucopia of choice on Qubuz . We’ve from scarcity to abundance - I wouldn’t want to be a musician relying on streaming for a living. On the other hand entry into the business as a label has probably never been easier.