BaL 6.03.21 - Debussy: Études pour piano

[kea]

Glad you picked me up on that, as I'm going to have to eat humble pie, having been again too quick off the mark ...my slight acquaintance with Yeol Eum Son suggests someone not yet a front-rank artist, but Anna Vinnitskaya, I'm just listening to again now, and is a very considerable artist, and I can see why Kea has mentioned her.

I mentioned Yeol Eum Son because she is one of the greatest living pianists from a purely pianistic (rather than interpretive) perspective, whereas interpretively, I can see a great deal of room for disagreement on her merits (much like e.g. Hamelin or Cziffra). Her style tends to be clean, analytical and serious, with great attention paid to every individual sound and nothing whatsoever left to chance, but at times it pays great dividends (e.g. in her Tombeau de Couperin, Chopin Etudes, or Schumann Humoreske) while at other times falling mostly flat (e.g. in her Hammerklavier). In Debussy this style sometimes works very well (e.g. Pollini) and sometimes not so well (e.g. Aimard). I would be curious to hear which side of the line she falls on.

Vinnitskaya is never to be missed. I have very high hopes for her future career.

[gradus]

Thanks for the introduction to Yeol Eom Son.
I've listened to her in the Schumann Arabeske and a couple of Debussy preludes. Her Schumann performance is wonderful and as close in style to Horowitz (my favourite in the piece) as I have heard. Unfortunately Spotify doesn't have her in Humoreske but I'd dearly like to hear it.

[kea]

Thanks for the introduction to Yeol Eom Son.
I've listened to her in the Schumann Arabeske and a couple of Debussy preludes. Her Schumann performance is wonderful and as close in style to Horowitz (my favourite in the piece) as I have heard. Unfortunately Spotify doesn't have her in Humoreske but I'd dearly like to hear it.

The commercial recording is somewhat difficult to come by, being only a Korean market release and thus not offered on most streaming services. Her interpretation did change slightly since she first played the piece, at the 2011 Tchaikovsky Competition, but that first performance should provide you with a pretty good idea of whether you'll want to buy the studio album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RONO_PM8SSU&t=78s

[gradus]

The commercial recording is somewhat difficult to come by, being only a Korean market release and thus not offered on most streaming services. Her interpretation did change slightly since she first played the piece, at the 2011 Tchaikovsky Competition, but that first performance should provide you with a pretty good idea of whether you'll want to buy the studio album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RONO_PM8SSU&t=78s

When I hear Schumann played like that it reminds me again how much his music means to me, I think it's a mesmerising performance and my thanks again for posting it.

[Beresford]

On the Debussy Etudes, I've just come across this interesting message-board from 16 years ago, showing how various are people's favourites in this piece.

https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/X7Yr092m/debussy-etudes

There is even some praise for the "Joyce Hatto" recording, so written before it was revealed as a fraud.

[richardfinegold]

I was curious also about Richard Barrett's question (why Uchida)—I've either heard high praise for Uchida's recording of the etudes, or complaints that her performance is too superficial and virtuosic, which is the kind of complaint frequently made by people who can't play the piano. So I queued up Pour les cinq doigts from Bavouzet, Uchida, Thibaudet, two other common top recommendations (Pollini and Jacobs) and the best (technically speaking) pianist who has recorded the set (Joseph Moog). My conclusions are:

- Moog is the best played (predictably), in terms of control of the piano
- Uchida is very close behind—quite honestly it's probably subjective which one would consider to be more "in control"
- Bavouzet has the widest variety of tone colour and sonority, but doesn't handle phrasing as well; the music is choppier
- Jacobs has the long line and command of the structure, but is technically subpar; and Pollini has that, too, while being technically better
- Pollini and Thibaudet are pretty good, but don't seem to have been recorded in very good sound, and both have technical difficulties in contrasting respects: Pollini's playing is a bit messy, a bit over-pedalled in places, although with superb clarity when he slows down a bit; Thibaudet comes across as too slow and unexpressive, even though he's not actually playing any slower than any of the others
- Uchida is structurally better than Bavouzet but doesn't quite reach the structural coherence of Pollini or Jacobs, due to taking a few unnecessary ritenuti
- Moog is structurally about as good as Uchida, but interprets the piece more literally, without conveying the same sense of caprice and fantasy
- With all of these said, these are all minor differences, and any discerning listener would likely be satisfied with any one of these recordings (or maybe all of them, I don't judge)

I would probably pick Uchida and Moog as the two sets I'd keep at the moment, and this hopefully explains why, but it would be ideal to get a recording from someone like Yeol Eum Son or Anna Vinnitskaya or Francesco Piemontesi, if any of them are interested.

I had bought the Pollini recording a week ago and am revisiting this excellent post after a few listens. My only other recording was Frankl on a Vox Box set (unfortunately not included in the post above); I had previously had Jacobs on lp and was generally familiar with Uchida (our lending library has the CD and I've borrowed it a few times over the years, and listened recently on Qobuz). Most of Debussy Piano music is essential listening for me but the Etudes, as a set have always seemed a bit elusive.
Regarding Pollini I am not a fan of the recording quality either. (Why did DG, for about the first half century of the stereo era, do such a poor job of reproducing the piano? a digression). What struck me about Pollini was the clarity.
I was surprised that Kea , who obviously knows a lot more about the piece, thought it over pedaled. In general Pollini seems to sweep aside a lot of Impressionistic haze and seems intent on showing us the skeleton of each etude. The approach reminds me of Boulez Debussy (or Mahler, for that matter).
I don't know that I will ever come to have the affection for the Etudes that I do for Debussy other Piano oeuvre, but I do feel as if I have more of a handle on them after learning M.P.

[BBMmk2]

#RichardFinegold, I didn’t know MP had re order these?

[vinteuil]

#RichardFinegold, I didn’t know MP had recorded these?

... yours for a tenner -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005RRXX

or, if you prefer, for £1,158-56 (but with free delivery!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003YANSQ6

.

[richardfinegold]

... yours for a tenner -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005RRXX

or, if you prefer, for £1,158-56 (but with free delivery!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003YANSQ6

.

I got the thousand pound one for eight dollars....I really like the Berg Sonata as well. Has that work been orchestrated? It sounded vaguely familiar...

[cloughie]

... yours for a tenner -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005RRXX

or, if you prefer, for £1,158-56 (but with free delivery!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003YANSQ6

.

I’d better snap up the £1158 one quickly! What fools who put these things up for sale think that anyone will pay that kind of money for that or any other CD?

[Bryn]

... yours for a tenner -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00005RRXX

or, if you prefer, for £1,158-56 (but with free delivery!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003YANSQ6

Or there's https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pollini-20t...r%2C153&sr=1-2, which works out at far less, pro rata.

[MickyD]

I’d better snap up the £1158 one quickly! What fools who put these things up for sale think that anyone will pay that kind of money for that or any other CD?

Yes, I know what you mean. But in the case of very hard to find CDs, it's surprising what collectors do stump up. I sold a 2 CD set for about £90 recently - that's far off £1158, I know, but still quite a high sum for just 2 discs.

[LHC]

I’d better snap up the £1158 one quickly! What fools who put these things up for sale think that anyone will pay that kind of money for that or any other CD?

As I recall, these high prices are often the result of dynamic pricing algorithms, which continue to raise prices when there are very few sellers offering a particular item. When there are two sellers using similar algorithms, this can result in both continually raising their prices. There was a case on the US Amazon site when two competing dynamic pricing algorithms inadvertently raised the price of a particular used textbook to $23M, even though no one was buying the book.

I would suggest that the price of £1,158.56 is probably the result of a similar rogue algorithm, and bears no relation to what anyone would actually pay for this CD.

[Roslynmuse]

I got the thousand pound one for eight dollars....I really like the Berg Sonata as well. Has that work been orchestrated? It sounded vaguely familiar...

Yes, it has been orchestrated by Theo Verbey and recorded by Chailley and the RCO coupled with Mahler 1.

[cloughie]

As I recall, these high prices are often the result of dynamic pricing algorithms, which continue to raise prices when there are very few sellers offering a particular item. When there are two sellers using similar algorithms, this can result in both continually raising their prices. There was a case on the US Amazon site when two competing dynamic pricing algorithms inadvertently raised the price of a particular used textbook to $23M, even though no one was buying the book.

I would suggest that the price of £1,158.56 is probably the result of a similar rogue algorithm, and bears no relation to what anyone would actually pay for this CD.

Then the algorithm needs sorting as it is not really providing a realistic service to the amazon merchant. (Mind you that’s some rake-off for the River People if they did sell at that price. But looking at the composer on the 2nd disc it’s a NONO!