BaL 27.02.21 - Music by Josquin des Prez

**ardcarp** · 15-02-21, 23:15

Wonderful....but such a big subject to consider. I wonder what is being compared with which? But Elin could be good given a fair playing field!

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 16-02-21, 06:02

Is there a sound reason for referring to this composer by his first name? The family surname was Prez.

Is it just a habit, like referring to the PM as “Boris”?

**Pulcinella** · 16-02-21, 07:11

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

Is there a sound reason for referring to this composer by his first name? The family surname was Prez.

Is it just a habit, like referring to the PM as “Boris”?

Even more confusingly, perhaps, the Presto site lists him under Despres, but refers to the Wiki entry on him, which says:

Josquin des Prez (French: [ʒɔskɛ̃ depʁe]; c. 1450/1455 – 27 August 1521), often referred to simply as Josquin, was a French composer of the Renaissance. He was the most famous European composer between Guillaume Dufay and Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina, and is usually considered to be the central figure of the Franco-Flemish School. Josquin is widely considered the first master of the high Renaissance style of polyphonic vocal music that was emerging during his lifetime.

A later section, headed Name, says:

Josquin's original name is sometimes given as Josquin Lebloitte and his later name is given under a wide variety of spellings in French, Italian, and Latin, including Iosquinus Pratensis and Iodocus a Prato. His motet Illibata Dei virgo nutrix includes an acrostic of his name, where he spelled it "Josquin des Prez".

PS: I have no idea why part of his dates has gone red. All I did was cut and paste! Even more curious is that the part is red only on my iPad, not my iMac!!

**vinteuil** · 16-02-21, 08:45

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

Is there a sound reason for referring to this composer by his first name?

... like Dante and Leonardo

Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post

Josquin's original name is sometimes given as Josquin Lebloitte

... excellent - I'm going to re-file my Josquin under L.

(Just as Stendhal goes under B, Molière under P, and Voltaire under A ...)

.

**verismissimo** · 16-02-21, 10:21

Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

... like Dante and Leonardo

And Michelangelo and Galileo and Raphael and Erasmus and Titian and …

**Ein Heldenleben** · 16-02-21, 10:23

Originally posted by verismissimo View Post

And Michelangelo and Galileo and Raphael and Erasmus and Titian and …

When you are known centuries after your death by your first name you know you’ve made it !
E.g Jesus , Judas ,

It helps if that first name isn’t John or Dave though...

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 16-02-21, 10:43

Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post

When you are known centuries after your death by your first name you know you’ve made it !
E.g Jesus , Judas ,

It helps if that first name isn’t John or Dave though...

I'm off to listen to some Johann.

**LeMartinPecheur** · 16-02-21, 10:49

Just realised I'm related to the famous renaissance composer Clemens!

We Non Papas are a very big family

**Ein Heldenleben** · 16-02-21, 11:05

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

I'm off to listen to some Johann.

Christian or Sebastian ?

**gurnemanz** · 16-02-21, 11:09

Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

... like Dante and Leonardo

... excellent - I'm going to re-file my Josquin under L.

(Just as Stendhal goes under B, Molière under P, and Voltaire under A ...)

.

I had him filed as Desprez, Josquin, (sandwiched between Despond, Luc and Dessau, Paul). This is the spelling used on the two recordings I have (Herreweghe and Clément Janequin Ensemble. I can now see that this is misguided since Desprez is not a surname and have repositioned him as Josquin des Prez which is how he seems to have referred to himself -a bit like the Minnesänger, Walther von der Vogelweide and Wolfram von Eschenbach who appear in Tannhäuser.

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 16-02-21, 11:15

Clearly a list of available recordings would be unrealistic, but I've added a list of works by Josquin des Prez that have three or more available versions.
(See #1)

**french frank** · 16-02-21, 13:19

Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

... excellent - I'm going to re-file my Josquin under L.

(Just as Stendhal goes under B, Molière under P, and Voltaire under A ...).

Obviously, for any sort of public index, the rule is to classify under the form where most people seeking a reference will find it most easily. For private purposes one may do as one wishes - and trust that one remembers what one's thinking was at the time.

As one who once earned a few pounds indexing medieval French names, I could say a great deal more, though that is clearly not called for here …

**Pulcinella** · 16-02-21, 13:35

Originally posted by french frank View Post

Obviously, for any sort of public index, the rule is to classify under the form where most people seeking a reference will find it most easily. For private purposes one may do as one wishes - and trust that one remembers what one's thinking was at the time.

As one who once earned a few pounds indexing medieval French names, I could say a great deal more, though that is clearly not called for here …

Which is why I find Presto's listing, under Despres, rather bizarre!
Meanwhile, poor Giovanni Pierluigi gets lumbered with his birthplace (which I've often contemplated visiting but never got round to).

**vinteuil** · 16-02-21, 13:56

Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post

Meanwhile, poor Giovanni Pierluigi gets lumbered with his birthplace (which I've often contemplated visiting but never got round to).

... well worth visiting!

Palestrina - Wikipedia

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestrina

Meanwhile poor Giovanni Battista gets lumbered, not with his birthplace* (well worth visiting... ) but with the much less distinguished township of his ancestors ** (which is nice enough, but more of a città di uno cavallo ... )

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iesi

Jesi - Wikipedia

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesi

** https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergola_(Italia)

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BaL 27.02.21 - Music by Josquin des Prez

BaL 27.02.21 - Music by Josquin des Prez

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