BaL 20.02.21 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 6

[vinteuil]

In my perversely obtuse way I took Tovey's "witticism" -- advanced by a composer whose early output was "serious and foreign" enough to find favour initially in Germany but not in his homeland -- as a rebuke to those who lacked the patience to listen and let Bruckner's music unfold on its and his own terms. Rather the exact opposite of your reading of the quote.

... I agree with Maclintick here - I took Tovey's point as a criticism of those (presumably English) who are more concerned with "wanting to catch the last train home" than letting the music do what it has to.

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[Maclintick]

... I agree with Maclintick here - I took Tovey's point as a criticism of those (presumably English) who are more concerned with "wanting to catch the last train home" than letting the music do what it has to.

Listening now to Tovey's Symphony in D (1915) on Spotify -- very Brucknerian in contrast to his earlier style, which is pure Brahms..

[jayne lee wilson]

Swift, direct, unsentimental Bruckner from the Cologne RSO/Gunter Wand (rec. 1976, RCA Gunter Wand Edition CD Cycle, 2002 Green Box). No lingering over detail or caressing of phrases here (thankyou). A thrusting, athletic muscularity to the allegros, symphonic logic the focus. In the impressively dynamic, hyperdetailed 24/96 remaster for the Gunter Wand edition, the score is laid bare and you follow every line, each motivic development. But then, the Cologne brasses arrive to sweep you away with their power and splendour: excitement is on offer after all!

Wand may often seem a little plain or workmanlike, stern in his control; he breezes rather coolly through the adagio’s 2nd group, for example; the impassioned string descent in the coda is, well, rather passionless. But in defiance of Richard Strauss’s famous instruction, he always looks encouragingly at the brass. To the extent that, by the scherzo reprise, it was beginning to seem somewhat de trop; their massive brilliance and weight a little tiring to this Brucknerian’s ear, craving as I do more variety of colour, texture and intensity.They feel too dominant in the orchestral palette.

Wand would seem to realise his view of the work precisely, with his devoted, polished band; everything is sharp, clear, coherent. But it leaves me wanting something more from this wonderful music; a greater, or warmer, sense of conductor-involvement. The sonic effect, though very impressive, might not always draw me back to listen again, or to others from this set. (I can still recall the 5th though, which would seem bound to have an overwhelming conclusion played, and sounding, like this……)

One’s tastes and priorities change with life and time; I can still be lost in admiration, sometimes, for what Wand does achieve here - his formal logic, discipline and precision. But if I want to enjoy this more analytical approach, I do find far more musical subtlety, interest and involvement with Rosbaud; above all, that re-contextualising of the whole work that his remarkable reading of the finale creates, provoking both thought and thrills.


***
NB….Just begun listening to (i) in the live 1996 NDR Wand…. very different, slower, more thoughtful, tempi- and expression-differentiated…simply takes more time in (i), very beneficially…totally different SQ, distanced midhall…….…

[Goon525]

Does anyone know what is the record number of pages of discussion of a work here before its BaL actually takes place?

[Cockney Sparrow]

Maybe I haven’t been paying attention, but I haven’t noticed mention of this You Tube of Wand conducting the 6th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYiK1lJ4sQI

Mit Günter Wand und Anton Bruckners Sinfonie Nr. 6 in A-Dur eröfffnet das damalige NDR Sinfonieorchester 1996 das Schleswig-Holstein Musik Festival in Lübeck.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Does anyone know what is the record number of pages of discussion of a work here before its BaL actually takes place?

Dunno but the BAL is going to be one hell of a letdown after this...
It’s had me listening to Bruckner all week, leafing through Bruckner articles on JSTOR and buying the Kindle ebook of the Cambridge Companion . AB is both exhausting and inexhaustible
Now on Walter VPO Bruckner 9

[jayne lee wilson]

Does anyone know what is the record number of pages of discussion of a work here before its BaL actually takes place?

This might be the Bruckner 3 thread, (before/after) the excellent Tom Service BaL (12/2016).... it was certainly a Brucknerian epic (and a very vigorous, colourful and enjoyable one...).
It reached over 180 posts by the start of the BaL, eventually going on to over 400!

[jayne lee wilson]

Maybe I haven’t been paying attention, but I haven’t noticed mention of this You Tube of Wand conducting the 6th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYiK1lJ4sQI

Mit Günter Wand und Anton Bruckners Sinfonie Nr. 6 in A-Dur eröfffnet das damalige NDR Sinfonieorchester 1996 das Schleswig-Holstein Musik Festival in Lübeck.

At least 5 recordings of Wand on CD (three to stream via Qobuz, doubtless other services too) are quite enough to be going on with! This one would probably be close, interpretively, to the live 1995 RCA Hamburg one with the same orchestra.

[silvestrione]

In my perversely obtuse way I took Tovey's "witticism" -- advanced by a composer whose early output was "serious and foreign" enough to find favour initially in Germany but not in his homeland -- as a rebuke to those who lacked the patience to listen and let Bruckner's music unfold on its and his own terms. Rather the exact opposite of your reading of the quote.

Exactly. The 'haughtiness' is somewhere else I think.

[Richard Barrett]

In my perversely obtuse way I took Tovey's "witticism" -- advanced by a composer whose early output was "serious and foreign" enough to find favour initially in Germany but not in his homeland -- as a rebuke to those who lacked the patience to listen and let Bruckner's music unfold on its and his own terms. Rather the exact opposite of your reading of the quote.

Fair enough then. I shall confront the grumpy version of me from this morning and give him a good talking to.

[silvestrione]

Fair enough then. I shall confront the grumpy version of me from this morning and give him a good talking to.

[Barbirollians]

I see outside the Jochum boxes I own four recordings -Klemperer,Norrington,Dohnanyi and Haitink’s 2017 account which Gramophone described as the essential Haitink recording to own ! I must admit it does not seem to have made much of an impression on me as I had forgotten that I had bought it ☺️

I am interested in the Dausgaard.

[Alison]

I think Sir Simon or Dausgaard will win.

[verismissimo]

... I agree with Maclintick here - I took Tovey's point as a criticism of those (presumably English) who are more concerned with "wanting to catch the last train home" than letting the music do what it has to.

.

So far as I can tell, the first performance in Britain of the Sixth took place at the Usher Hall in Edinburgh on Thursday 14 March 1929.

The Reid Symphony Orchestra was conducted by a Professor Tovey, tickets 1/3 to 5/9.

[Maclintick]

I think Sir Simon or Dausgaard will win.

I don't know either of these, but I've just re-listened to Klemperer/Philharmonia & Jochum/Dresden SK & my preference tilts strongly towards Klemperer, for many of the reasons adduced by JLW, in addition to which I'd add superior playing by the Philharmonia -- & OK's craggy individuality, diametrically opposed to HVK. Haitink/BRSO in the BR box dull & uninvolving - BH's Bruckner with the Concertgebouw (pre royal-appellation) live in the early 80s was much more exciting IIRC.