BaL 13.02.2021 - Stravinsky: Pulcinella

[Bryn]

That was pretty much my reaction, especially in the case of giving a second Craft excerpt. And I found the jumping between suite and ballet confusing rather than helpful. In admitting that they are two different pieces (as the reviewer did) it seemed odd to lump them together the way he did.

Also, if they were going to lump in the suite, why not gothe whole hog and include the Suite Italienne in its various guises?

[underthecountertenor]

AM’s contributions were pointless.

I had thought that by now I might be inured to this format, but I find myself getting if anything more annoyed by it as time goes on. So much time is wasted with McGregor's obviously scripted leading questions (wouldn't it be wonderful if once in a while a reviewer said 'well no actually...'?) and his irritating habit of repeating the reviewer's comments on an extract after the extract is played (sometimes underlining it by saying 'as you said' or words to that effect. No wonder they now have to whittle field down to a short long-list before they even start.

[Simon Biazeck]

Yes that’s what I thought - it had that breathy “bandits at 12.00 o’clock WingCo” quality so familiar from war films about the RAF .Could be wrong though. It’s amazing how a decent Mike - even a cheapish gaming Mike improves the quality of those oh so fascinating zoom meetings . Amaze your colleagues and buy one,...

No, I'm not an expert either, but you've put your finger on the effect!!

SBz.

[ardcarp]

The twofer format at its most extreme today. Jonathan Cross seems to find it difficult to get a word in at times, and even then there’s a feeling that he’s just doing as he’s told!

Alps, as you probably know I'm one of those who generally hate the twofer format. But surprisingly, and probably because Pulcinella (the ballet!) is one of my absolute faves, it didn't worry me overmuch today.

I rarely hear the full ballet-score with voices, but was happy with the outcome (Abbado) even if it did sneak in somewhat abruptly. However, the Suite, in the hands of Hogwood and the Suzuki, sounded absolutely fantastic, and when funds allow I am tempted to order one of them.

However, I was a music student in the days when Stravinsky was very much alive, and it was a task I seem to remember, exploring how much Robert Craft spoke for and even moderated our understanding of Stravinsky interpretation. It is my (somewhat vague) understanding that Stravinsky didn't want his music to 'express' too much; i.e. he wanted to play it cool. In that respect, Boulez seemed to be on the right track. But times change, and let's be honest, modern interpreters can do what the hell they like! And for me the spirit of the Commedia dell'arte can be exploited for all it's worth....even in the hands of Bernstein!

So it's probably Suzuki for me.....and I didn't even know he'd recorded it.

[visualnickmos]

Eh? Abbado was the 'winner'.

Indeed; my mind went for a wander halfway through! Often the case with these ridiculous two-handers.....

Even so - I stick to my guns on Hogwood and whichever band it was; was not some praise heaped upon it, though?

[cloughie]

Indeed; my mind went for a wander halfway through! Often the case with these ridiculous two-handers.....

Even so - I stick to my guns on Hogwood and whichever band it was; was not some praise heaped upon it, though?

The Suite by Hogwood and the Basel is so wonderfully crisp fresh and uplifting.

[visualnickmos]

The Suite by Hogwood and the Basel is so wonderfully crisp fresh and uplifting.

I'm sure it is, but that is what I don't like about it. It sounds too much as if it actually is Pergolesi and whoever, and that is not what I want to hear; I think Stravinsky should sometimes have that almost incongruous feel to it. A hint of the absurd.

[ardcarp]

But it is fascinating to hear what Stravinsky is actually doing to overlay the original style. Rhythmic additions, of course, but just sometimes a tonic pedal note is held through a harmonic sequence, or a totally unrelated melodic fragment pops up. Very subtle and very clever as one would expect from a genius! I love it without reservation. But see my post #64 about 'interpretation'. Maybe Boulez would suit you better?

[visualnickmos]

But it is fascinating to hear what Stravinsky is actually doing to overlay the original style. Rhythmic additions, of course, but just sometimes a tonic pedal note is held through a harmonic sequence, or a totally unrelated melodic fragment pops up. Very subtle and very clever as one would expect from a genius! I love it without reservation. But see my post #64 about 'interpretation'. Maybe Boulez would suit you better?

I certainly go along with you, and interestingly in my first comment in this thread, I wrote "Boulez is the one I'm going to investigate. Have Abbado, and one or two suites."

[gurnemanz]

Car wouldn't start this morning. Green Flag turned up so punctually I missed the end of BaL but I have got the necessary gen off this thread. (Battery knackered and cold snap had seen if off. Conveniently the guy installed a new one on the spot, which saved me going to a workshop.) I have the Sanderling/Bournemouth version with the youthful Ian Bostridge on good form. May not be top recommendation but I like it and don't feel the need to acquire another one.

[ardcarp]

Car needy a dell starta?

Sorry

[Pulcinella]

The Suite by Hogwood and the Basel is so wonderfully crisp fresh and uplifting.

I'm sure it is, but that is what I don't like about it. It sounds too much as if it actually is Pergolesi and whoever, and that is not what I want to hear; I think Stravinsky should sometimes have that almost incongruous feel to it. A hint of the absurd.

I wonder if that's why I didn't take to the Hogwood suite at first hearing (I must give it another go); I seem to remember finding it rather rushed, and not actually that clean and crisp, though. But I did rather like Hogwood's complete version. (En passant, volumes 1 and 2 in the Basle Arte Nova series are both interesting compilations: Tippett, Britten, and Stravinsky on volume 1, and a recreation of a concert of commissions from Martinu, Stravinsky, and Honegger on volume 2.)

I certainly go along with you, and interestingly in my first comment in this thread, I wrote "Boulez is the one I'm going to investigate. Have Abbado, and one or two suites."

I know that both the time constraints and the twofer format would not allow it, but, given that both the suite and the ballet were considered, and that several conductors have recorded both, some comparative excerpts commenting on consistency (or the lack thereof) in approach might have been interesting.

For example, I liked the comment about Boulez' 'relationship' with Stravinsky's music, and there was praise for his recording of the ballet, but no mention of his recording of the suite with the NYPO, a very lacklustre effort in my opinion.
And it was good that mention was made of the fact that Ansermet conducted the premiere, and we had a vocal excerpt from his ballet recording, but no mention of his recording of the suite, which, like Marriner's (another conductor who has recorded both; no mention of either, was there?), must have been the first recording many of us here heard or got to know.

[MickyD]

The Suite by Hogwood and the Basel is so wonderfully crisp fresh and uplifting.

All the other discs of theatre music that Hogwood did with the Basel orchestra for Arte Nova are well worth investigating, too.

[Bryn]

All the other discs of theatre music that Hogwood did with the Basel orchestra for Arte Nova are well worth investigating, too.

The early copy of the first volume of that series that I have misattributes Martinu's Toccata we due Canzoni to Tippett! Later re-issues corrected the error.

[Nick Armstrong]

Agree with much of the above - though the sound issue and AMcG ‘nodding dog’ interruptions didn’t really bother me as I found the reviewer excellent and the subject matter interesting. Nice cheap BAL as an early Abbado ‘adopter’ (see above) and I’m not particularly keen on having the suite.

The Chailly is one I’d been curious about but the voices ruled it out for me on this hearing, and I wasn’t struck by other vocal line-ups we heard.

The historical background to the piece (not least M de Falla passing on the project) and to the selections used by its creators was especially interesting to me. Did somebody say that with the Hogwood recording we get the originals as an appendix to the Suite? (That would make it worth exploring)