BaL 6.02.21 - Bartók: String Quartet No. 5.

[jayne lee wilson]

There's a rather famous stereo recording of a live performance of Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto from during the war. You can even hear the anti-aircraft guns in the background. Praga claimed that these Bartok recordings were made simultaneously with the mono ones issued on LP and that the stereo tapes were intended for the American market but not used at the time. They offered no information as to how they came by them or who owns/ed the copyright on them.

IIRC Bryn, didn't we both get a rather tetchy response from a Praga rep after writing to enquire about the stereo source? But still without much further info about it...

Whether one hears them as "narrow stereo" or "mono with added ambience", they still sounded very good in this mastering....better than straight-mono issues I've heard....

I'll take another listen soon.

[Bryn]

I've just been listening to the Takács recording of no.5. Well yes, it's very good, no doubt about that. I think the reason I would still tend towards the Hagen recording is nothing to do with either being better- or not so well-played as the other, since at this level of playing it can be assumed that everything about a performance has been put there on purpose by the performers and reflects the way they want it to sound. For me it's more a personal matter, that the Hagens' approach to the expressive qualities of the music is more in line with how I feel about it - not just that I accept the expressive decisions they take but that I agree with them, if that makes sense. Maybe it's something to do with the Takács taking a slightly more "romantic" approach. But they do play this music beautifully.

Hmm. I, in turn, have been listening to the Hagens in both 5 and 6 and must concur, they are very special. Some particularly sensitive playing there.

[Katzelmacher]

Not listened to the programme yet, but I’m surprised the Belceas didn’t score more highly. The last time I looked, their set was generally acclaimed.


And the last time I listened to the Emerson set, I found it a bit smooth and lounge-lizardy. Not Hungarian enough. And being Hungarian is important, isn’t it?

[kea]

I've just been listening to the Takács recording of no.5. Well yes, it's very good, no doubt about that. I think the reason I would still tend towards the Hagen recording is nothing to do with either being better- or not so well-played as the other, since at this level of playing it can be assumed that everything about a performance has been put there on purpose by the performers and reflects the way they want it to sound. For me it's more a personal matter, that the Hagens' approach to the expressive qualities of the music is more in line with how I feel about it - not just that I accept the expressive decisions they take but that I agree with them, if that makes sense. Maybe it's something to do with the Takács taking a slightly more "romantic" approach. But they do play this music beautifully.

I listened to the Takács 5 & the Juilliard 1963 5 and have similar reservations. The Takács 5 was my imprint recording, so I probably criticise it more harshly than I would a recording that was new to me; it was however always my least favourite of their cycle. So I found myself objecting to e.g. the Takács's use of vibrato, or portamento, or taking pauses slightly too long between sections of music, and appreciating the surgically clean, modernist, but emotionally so much more intense Juilliard recording. They are both very good, though. I will revisit the Hagen recording later.

[Bryn]

Who, me? I'm only halfway through the LHQ's op. 17 so far! and there's the new Nelsons Bruckner 8 which I managed a few minutes of before being called away... and there's your Venturini, and Leila Schayegh's Sonatas and Partitas, and a new recording of Eisler's Deutsche Sinfonie... but OK, I'll put it in the favourites and get around to it sooner or later.

Noting that I only had two recordings of Eisler's Deutsche Sinfonie (the Zagrosek and the Pommer), I have queued (cued?) up the new one for listening via QOBUZ and also ordered a "new" copy of the 'live' Inbal recording. The latter has just been delivered. I hope to listen to them this afternoon. Both should be improvements on the Zagrosek but will the stand comparison with the Pommer?

By the way, I note that the 10 CD Brilliant Classics Hanns Eisler Edition can be downloaded from QOBUZ for £16.19 (CD rate). That's a lot cheaper than the disc version, these days.

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/ha.../5029365943024 or if you prefer, Presto Classical has the same FLACs for a mere £95.86, https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...-edition#about

[Richard Barrett]

BTW the "new" Eisler recording is actually an ORF broadcast recording from 1989.

[Opinionated Knowall]

By the way, I note that the 10 CD Brilliant Classics Hanns Eisler Edition can be downloaded from QOBUZ for £16.19 (CD rate). That's a lot cheaper than the disc version, these days.

What is that Brilliant set like? I have all the marvellous Berlin Classics CDs from pre-unification times, but always interested to broaden horizons, Eisler-wise.

[Bryn]

By the way, I note that the 10 CD Brilliant Classics Hanns Eisler Edition can be downloaded from QOBUZ for £16.19 (CD rate). That's a lot cheaper than the disc version, these days.

What is that Brilliant set like? I have all the marvellous Berlin Classics CDs from pre-unification times, but always interested to broaden horizons, Eisler-wise.

If you have the Berlin Classics issues, you will not need the Brilliant Classics. I have not checked everything in it but what I have checked are all licenced from Berlin Classics. It is, however, ideal for those who do not already have them as issued previously.

[silvestrione]

The Takacs seemed a very worthy winner.

But was the illustrated recording (Decca, 1990s, according to the broadcast) the same as the wonderful set I've had on LP for decades, bought in the 80s in Budapest (Hungaroton, 1984)?

I heard them play the work, with these earlier personnel, and it was stunning. I'm surprised there's not been more discussion of the fact that there are two Takacs recordings, and the earlier line-up may be capable of being more idiomatic, from their background.

[jayne lee wilson]

I heard them play the work, with these earlier personnel, and it was stunning. I'm surprised there's not been more discussion of the fact that there are two Takacs recordings, and the earlier line-up may be capable of being more idiomatic, from their background.

See Gramophone 12/84 and 3/85 for the reviews of the earlier set. Suffice to say that AW was very lukewarm about it, RL a little more positive, but both felt that it did not disturb the then current superiority of such as the Eder, Tokyo or Lindsay cycles....

I can only reiterate how spectacular the 1998 G-award-winner is (with of course Dusinberre and Tapping - the personnel has changed again since); it just sweeps me away with its imagination, atmosphere, the range and quality of sound and sheer gutsy attack....it compels close attention and deep involvement.

Do you know either of the Vegh sets? That's where I go if I want a truly idiomatic Hungarian feel (not that I feel this is seriously lacking in the 1998 Takacs).
The stereo Vegh seems to get less attention than the various reissues of 1954, but don't overlook it; it is very rewarding.

[Bryn]

. . . Do you know either of the Vegh sets? That's where I go if I want a truly idiomatic Hungarian feel (not that I feel this is seriously lacking in the 1998 Takacs).
The stereo Vegh seems to get less attention than the various reissues of 1954, but don't overlook it; it is very rewarding.

Ah. The second? () Vegh stereo set is, indeed, fine when played from most CD players but IIRC it has pre-emphasis applied and not all CD players are built to deal with it properly. It also makes it difficult to back-up to hard drive or make FLACs from. I must admit that I have not checked whether they are available as downloads and, if so, whether the files were derived with regards for the need to apply de-emphasis.

[jayne lee wilson]

Ah. The second? () Vegh stereo set is, indeed, fine when played from most CD players but IIRC it has pre-emphasis applied and not all CD players are built to deal with it properly. It also makes it difficult to back-up to hard drive or make FLACs from. I must admit that I have not checked whether they are available as downloads and, if so, whether the files were derived with regards for the need to apply de-emphasis.

The naive/auvidis set has been issued several times, at least twice complete, and earlier separates. Does the pre-emphasis inhere in all of those? I don't have any problem with the earlier complete set (with the Szechenyi Steam Baths on the cover) here at least, on various transports/systems over a few years...

IIRC, the latest stereo issue was also remastered..

[Bryn]

The auvidis set has been issued several times, twice complete, and earlier separates. Does the pre-emphasis inhere in all of those? I don't have any problem with the earlier complete set here at least, on various transports/systems over a few years...

I would very much doubt that any CD player you might have would be ill-equipped to deal with pre-emphasis. If you open a CD in EAC, it should show whether or not pre-emphasis had been employed (no need to actually rip the contents).