BaL 2.01.21 - Brahms: Horn Trio Op. 40

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  • rauschwerk
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 1491

    #16
    Originally posted by Bryn View Post
    Bottom line, it was composed to be played on the natural horn, NOT the valve horn. Brahms was quite insistent on the matter. Employ a valve and it is no longer the Brahms Horn Trio but an arrangement.
    On that issue I fear we must agree to differ.

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    • Darloboy
      Full Member
      • Jun 2019
      • 356

      #17
      Last covered on BaL in June 07, when Ivan Hewett chose Purvis, Phillips, Goode. Prior to that, in March 93 Stephen Johnson chose Brain, Bush & Serkin from 1933 with Tuckwell, Perlman & Ashkenazy as modern sound/cassette choice.

      It's not a work I'm fond of & I question whether it deserves to be covered more than eg The Well-Tempered Clavier - surely an essential work for any library - which was last reviewed on Bal in June 91.

      Comment

      • jayne lee wilson
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 10711

        #18
        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
        Currently streaming from Qobuz, here. It was no easy matter to find it there. The Qobuz search 'facility' leaves much to be desired. I bought the CD 4 years ago but am not sure where I have (mis)filed it. Faust and Melnikov also use appropriate instruments. It's superb, as one might expect for such musicians.
        I just put "Brahms Horn Trio Faust" in the Audirvana+/Qobuz "Discover" search box and...... yes, there it was straight away.
        On Qobuz itself, I searched in "downloads" >"classical"..... with this result:
        Qobuz is the world leader in 24-bit Hi-Res downloads, offering more than 100 million tracks for streaming in unequalled sound quality 24-Bit Hi-Res


        Generally if I need to search the Qobuz website itself for an album, I go to downloads to do it.....

        Will listen later, a work I truly adore, especially for its (effectively two) slow movements........but the adagio mesto itself is one of Brahms' greatest tragic inspirations.....
        Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 22-12-20, 15:01.

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        • Bryn
          Banned
          • Mar 2007
          • 24688

          #19
          Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
          I just put "Brahms Horn Trio Faust" in the Audirvana+/Qobuz "Discover" search box and...... yes, there it was straight away.
          On Qobuz itself, I searched in "downloads" >"classical"..... with this result:
          Qobuz is the world leader in 24-bit Hi-Res downloads, offering more than 100 million tracks for streaming in unequalled sound quality 24-Bit Hi-Res


          Generally if I need to search the Qobuz website itself for an album, I go to downloads to do it.....

          Will listen later, a work I truly adore....
          I have just tried "Brahms Horn Trio Faust" in the Qobuz app search facility. It totally failed to find the recording. However, "Teunis van der Zwart Brahms" found it straight away. I do not use Audiovana. It's the Qobuz search facility that I find weak.

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          • jayne lee wilson
            Banned
            • Jul 2011
            • 10711

            #20
            Originally posted by Bryn View Post
            I have just tried "Brahms Horn Trio Faust" in the Qobuz app search facility. It totally failed to find the recording. However, "Teunis van der Zwart Brahms" found it straight away. I do not use Audiovana. It's the Qobuz search facility that I find weak.
            There do seem to be significant differences between the Qobuz app you are using and the website itself....I almost always find what I want quickly (I use it to copy&paste albums into the Listening thread..) , as demoed above...

            "Brahms Trio Melnikov" gave me this.....
            Qobuz is the world leader in 24-bit Hi-Res downloads, offering more than 100 million tracks for streaming in unequalled sound quality 24-Bit Hi-Res

            Comment

            • Eine Alpensinfonie
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 20592

              #21
              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
              Employ a valve and it is no longer the Brahms Horn Trio but an arrangement.
              Not really. The notes are unaltered, so it isn't an arrangement. But Brahms clearly liked the natural horn, scoring most of his orchestral works to enable its use.

              The valdhorn was a simpler horn in use at the time - similar to the modern Vienna Philharmonic horns.

              Comment

              • MickyD
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 4981

                #22
                Originally posted by verismissimo View Post
                Indeed, so Zwart has to be a strong contender. Who's heard it? Reports please.
                I have it in my collection - it's excellent, as you would imagine with that combination of fine artists and the always dependable Harmonia Mundi recording team.

                Comment

                • jayne lee wilson
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 10711

                  #23
                  The Ligeti Horn Trio is so often the standard coupling any survey will have to take account of that, surely? Playing here now, the BIS SACD with Neunecker/Weithaas/Avenhaus is simply outstanding in both works, and in the best, perfectly-balanced BIS sound.....

                  The sound of the horn itself is one of the most distinctive differences between recordings too. Some more rounded, soft or full, others with more rasp and cutting edge. Neunecker is very balanced between these, and very sensitive to nuances in both works and the subtle links between them....this group find the expressive and rhythmical nuances in the scherzo and finale in the Brahms, beautifully .... the latter is more than just rollicking....
                  Kalevi Aho's Solo X for French Horn plays between the two trios: way more than filler, a marvellous apt and compelling choice. Neunecker is stunningly virtuoso and sensitive here.

                  Surprised how many I have of this sublime masterpiece, all the way back to Brain/Busch/Serkin.... but choosing just one would be almost impossible....
                  It could easily come down to couplings....

                  But, oh that Brahms adagio...from the heart, straight to the heart!
                  Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 23-12-20, 15:39.

                  Comment

                  • Goon525
                    Full Member
                    • Feb 2014
                    • 616

                    #24
                    Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                    The Ligeti Horn Trio is so often the standard coupling any survey will have to take account of that, surely?
                    But surely that's like saying that you can't talk about the Schumann Piano Concerto without referring to the Grieg?

                    Comment

                    • jayne lee wilson
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 10711

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
                      But surely that's like saying that you can't talk about the Schumann Piano Concerto without referring to the Grieg?
                      Depends what you spend your shekels on...... many listeners still want the physical disc and the Brahms is only around 20', so a BaL survey needs to take account of what you get along-with....some have the Brahms Clarinet Quintet or less often the Clarinet Trios of course.

                      The Ligeti is I think one of his most beautiful and approachable works, but it still challenges many an ear... in any case the Schumann/Grieg c/w isn't nearly so prevalent now as it once was...more often the concerto is c/w other Schumann works. The Horn Trio rep seems at first scarcely extensive, hence the predominant (and highly apt) coupling....

                      There are many others in relative obscurity of course, from Poul Ruders to Robert Simpson...not to mention for solo horn.... maybe Horn Trio colleagues should get out more...
                      Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 23-12-20, 16:55.

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                      • CallMePaul
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2014
                        • 828

                        #26
                        Originally posted by verismissimo View Post
                        Indeed, so Zwart has to be a strong contender. Who's heard it? Reports please.
                        I bought this a few years back in Harmonia Mundi's budget Musique d'abord series and have no inclination to buy another recording as I have enjoyed it (and the couplings) very much. Sadly I see that it is download only on the Presto website (but may still be available elsewhere in CD format?). Can H M not keep the Musique d'abord label going?

                        Comment

                        • jayne lee wilson
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 10711

                          #27
                          Originally posted by CallMePaul View Post
                          I bought this a few years back in Harmonia Mundi's budget Musique d'abord series and have no inclination to buy another recording as I have enjoyed it (and the couplings) very much. Sadly I see that it is download only on the Presto website (but may still be available elsewhere in CD format?). Can H M not keep the Musique d'abord label going?

                          Comment

                          • MickyD
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 4981

                            #28
                            Originally posted by CallMePaul View Post
                            I bought this a few years back in Harmonia Mundi's budget Musique d'abord series and have no inclination to buy another recording as I have enjoyed it (and the couplings) very much. Sadly I see that it is download only on the Presto website (but may still be available elsewhere in CD format?). Can H M not keep the Musique d'abord label going?
                            Are you sure that this version was released in the Musique d'abord series? I always thought it had only ever been at full price.

                            Comment

                            • jayne lee wilson
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 10711

                              #29
                              Originally posted by MickyD View Post
                              Are you sure that this version was released in the Musique d'abord series? I always thought it had only ever been at full price.
                              This one .........CD nla.....

                              Comment

                              • Bryn
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 24688

                                #30
                                Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                                And the very manifestation I purchased 4 years ago (used: very good).

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