BaL 19.12.20 - Mahler Symphony no. 1

[gradus]

Absolutely. I have just spent the last hour reading it. Fascinating

Fascinating indeed and reminds me of the now inaccessible utterly comprehensive Eroica study once available on-line but lost (to me at least) a few years ago.

[verismissimo]

A fascinating sutvey, Alison. Thanks

Next it got me thinking, who is missing in M1 in both Alpie's list and Denham's essay?

Ansermet, Barenboim, Beinum, Bohm, Fricsay, Jochum, Karajan, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Reiner, Sawallisch, Szell, Wand … others …

Did none of them perform or record it?

Klemperer is not in Denham, but Alpie lists him with the Sydney SO.

[HighlandDougie]

Next it got me thinking, who is missing in M1 in both Alpie's list and Denham's essay?

Ansermet, Barenboim, Beinum, Bohm, Fricsay, Jochum, Karajan, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Reiner, Sawallisch, Szell, Wand … others …

Did none of them perform or record it?

Klemperer is not in Denham, but Alpie lists him with the Sydney SO.

A nerd writes: I think that the Klemperer/Sydney SO performance may be the 2nd Symphony from a concert in Sydney in September 1950 (he had conducted them in the 4th - with Schwarzkopf - the previous season). According to Peter Heyworth, Klemperer conducted the 1st only once - in Cologne on 1 June 1920 - and never again as he disliked the finale.

Van Beinum conducted it with the Concertgebouw on 17 July 1932 - but never again with that orchestra, if its online archive is to be trusted. Barenboin conducted it at the 2005 proms with the West Eastern Divan Orchestra. Ansermet is said to have been rude about "Jewish Composers" including Mahler in, "Les fondements de la musique dans la conscience humaine", so I guess he probably never conducted the 1st.

Enough nerdisme for now!

[Petrushka]

Next it got me thinking, who is missing in M1 in both Alpie's list and Denham's essay?

Ansermet, Barenboim, Beinum, Bohm, Fricsay, Jochum, Karajan, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Reiner, Sawallisch, Szell, Wand … others …

Did none of them perform or record it?

Klemperer is not in Denham, but Alpie lists him with the Sydney SO.

Barenboim also performed it at the 2001 Proms with the Chicago SO as well as in 2005 as mentioned by HD.

As far as I know, Böhm never performed a Mahler symphony, nor did Fricsay, Jochum, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Sawallisch or Wand. In most of these cases I think we have to look at the difficult political and cultural climate of the 1930s and 40s for the answer, the time when most of these conductors were either active or learning their craft. For others it was just too late. Karajan might well have given us more Mahler had he lived longer and Jochum did at least give us an outstanding Das Lied von der Erde as did Reiner plus an excellent 4th. Kertesz, too, might have given us some Mahler had he not died in tragic circumstances.

[verismissimo]

Barenboim also performed it at the 2001 Proms with the Chicago SO as well as in 2005 as mentioned by HD.

As far as I know, Böhm never performed a Mahler symphony, nor did Fricsay, Jochum, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Sawallisch or Wand. In most of these cases I think we have to look at the difficult political and cultural climate of the 1930s and 40s for the answer, the time when most of these conductors were either active, learning their craft or it was just too late. Karajan might well have given us more Mahler had he lived longer and Jochum did at least give us an outstanding Das Lied von der Erde as did Reiner plus an excellent 4th. Kertesz, too, might have given us some Mahler had he not died in tragic circumstances.

All v interesting (and not really surprising, on reflection).

For me, the real surprise in the list is Szell, who was so good at Mahler … Thoughts?

[HighlandDougie]

All v interesting (and not really surprising, on reflection).

For me, the real surprise in the list is Szell, who was so good at Mahler … Thoughts?

It's possible that, like Klemperer, he had reservations about the work itself. Unfortunately, unlike the Concertgebouw or the NYPO, the Cleveland Orchestra doesn't have an online concert archive. Searching the Concertgebouw, he only conducted Das Lied von der Erde and the 4th Symphony with them. No Mahler with the VPO. The 6th with the NYPO. So, maybe he was fairly selective about what Mahler he actually conducted.

The Mahler Foundation's discography for the 1st is at:

https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/discography/symphony-no-1/

[cloughie]

Barenboim also performed it at the 2001 Proms with the Chicago SO as well as in 2005 as mentioned by HD.

As far as I know, Böhm never performed a Mahler symphony, nor did Fricsay, Jochum, Kertesz, E and C Kleiber, Monteux, Mravinsky, Sawallisch or Wand. In most of these cases I think we have to look at the difficult political and cultural climate of the 1930s and 40s for the answer, the time when most of these conductors were either active or learning their craft. For others it was just too late. Karajan might well have given us more Mahler had he lived longer and Jochum did at least give us an outstanding Das Lied von der Erde as did Reiner plus an excellent 4th. Kertesz, too, might have given us some Mahler had he not died in tragic circumstances.

Also Mahler really only became really popular in the 1960s and each record company would have their preferred conductor eg DG - Kubelik, Philips - Haitink, Decca - Solti, EMI - Klemperer and Barbirolli - also Symphony cycles were not that common at this time.

[Barbirollians]

I had a similar reaction some years ago to the CPO Ancerl on Supraphon.

Only got this recently - it is a cracker of a recording I agree - Czech PO highly characterful if not quite as they are in the live Barbirolli.

[Bryn]

Just dropped through letterbox, the BBC Music Magazine September 2021 issue with the coverdisc of the 19th February 2019 Usher Hall, Edinburgh performance of Mahler's 1st (not 'Titan', for once) from the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra (the BBC's 'top' orchestra) directed by Thomas Dausgaard. There is a bonus track of Paul Moylan's Klez'Mahler, performed by She'Koyokh, which precedes the Symphony.

[Petrushka]

Just dropped through letterbox, the BBC Music Magazine September 2021 issue with the coverdisc of the 19th February 2019 Usher Hall, Edinburgh performance of Mahler's 1st (not 'Titan', for once) from the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra (the BBC's 'top' orchestra) directed by Thomas Dausgaard. There is a bonus track of Paul Moylan's Klez'Mahler, performed by She'Koyokh, which precedes the Symphony.

Just dropped through my letterbox too. It's not often that BBC MM duplicates repertoire as there was a fine performance of the Mahler 1 with the BBCSO conducted by Manfred Honeck in the early days of the magazine.

[Bryn]

Just dropped through my letterbox too. It's not often that BBC MM duplicates repertoire as there was a fine performance of the Mahler 1 with the BBCSO conducted by Manfred Honeck in the early days of the magazine.

Indeed, though I applaud their decision on this occasion, and not just for the inclusion of the Klez'Mahler.

[Richard Barrett]

Klez'Mahler

I hope that is better than its title.

[Bryn]

I hope that is better than its title.

just a bit of fun with some of Mahler's source 'tunes', to my ears. Easy enough to skip the track.

[Richard Barrett]

just a bit of fun with some of Mahler's source 'tunes', to my ears.

You mean like Uri Caine already did...?

[Bryn]

You mean like Uri Caine already did...?

Not quite. Somewhat less inspired, I'd say, but a useful nod for those unfamiliar with the sources.

http://www.shekoyokh.co.uk/