BaL 19.12.20 - Mahler Symphony no. 1

[LeMartinPecheur]

Disappointing, LMP - Bryn is absolutely right to insist on musico-historical precision from a BaL reviewer.....

My 'disappointing' post was prompted by the thought that if R3 broadcast without introduction a 'tape' of the 1889 Budapest performance, everyone's first reaction would surely be, "Hey, it's Mahler 1" simpliciter. I won't speculate on how quickly the first listener (Bryn?) would have added, "But not quite as we know it."

And how many samples and comments would we have lost if we'd been treated to a full history of the score?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I tried not to squirm each time Andrew mispronounced ‘Budapest’.

Today, he seemed to have been on an excess of caffeine.

[gurnemanz]

Since living in France for nearly 20 years, I find enormous pleasure in listening to France Musique. Why the hell is it, that everything in UK has to be so diluted, that all you get something that a only anyone under 8, would find absorbing?

I have been living on this planet for 71 years and seem to have remained shallow and infantile enough to find plenty to enjoy on Radio Three.

[visualnickmos]

I have been living on this planet for 71 years and seem to have remained shallow and infantile enough to find plenty to enjoy on Radio Three.

That's NOT what I'm saying!

[Pulcinella]

I know that the restraints on time make it virtually impossible, but I would have liked to have heard more actual comparisons of the same bit rather than just the 'here's conductor 1 at the start and conductor 2 in the next bit and conductor 3 somewhere else' approach.
And given that even some of her 'favourites' were ditched for perfectly understandable reasons, I was left wondering how they had made it into her shortlist in the first place. Were there no others in the myriad versions available that satisfied her criteria better? The cynic in me suggests that some of the big name versions (Abbado and Kubelik, for example) were included just so she could justifiably throw them out and look like she was doing a good job.
That said, I quite enjoyed it, but am happy enough with my RLPO/Mackerras recording.

[Barbirollians]

So Ms Moore talked about 'pioneers' in recording this music and (is this a national trait of ours?) completely ignored our English pioneer, Barbirolli. His 1957 recording with the Halle, recently remastered by Warner, was surely worth mentioning and is a fine performance. Still in the 'historic' era are his recordings with the NYPO and Czech Philharmonic; still not a peep out of this and many reviewers who pay scant attention to his pioneering work in the history of British music making. Shameful!

Unsurprisingly,I agree with Nimrid - the 1957 Halle recording is a joy but is surpassed by that live Czech PO relay where everyone is having a whale of a time . Definitely one of my top three Mahler 1 recordings with the Walter and DG Lenny

[Barbirollians]

I know that the restraints on time make it virtually impossible, but I would have liked to have heard more actual comparisons of the same bit rather than just the 'here's conductor 1 at the start and conductor 2 in the next bit and conductor 3 somewhere else' approach.
And given that even some of her 'favourites' were ditched for perfectly understandable reasons, I was left wondering how they had made it into her shortlist in the first place. Were there no others in the myriad versions available that satisfied her criteria better? The cynic in me suggests that some of the big name versions (Abbado and Kubelik, for example) were included just so she could justifiably throw them out and look like she was doing a good job.
That said, I quite enjoyed it, but am happy enough with my RLPO/Mackerras recording.

You won’t regret getting the Walter Pulcinella - it is a wonderful record.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I tried not to squirm each time Andrew mispronounced ‘Budapest’.

Do you have similar issues with Paris, Berlin, Copenhagen, Rome, Florence, Venice? If all 'English' pronunciations of foreign place names get banned we'll never dare say anything!

[richardfinegold]

I swear that at one stage this morning that self same recording on Amazon was £27 , then went up to £38 . Now it’s £15. Aside from making more money than any of us can possibly believe what is Bezos up to?

I’ve owned the Walter on lp, ($2.75)then the first CD reissue, then Sony issued a little box of all their WalterMahler recordings for about $10 with what appears to be the same remastering as the big Walter box that I recently purchased. I remember when I bought the first CD incarnation being astounded by the dynamic range and detail relative to my aural memory of the lp. One can also hear when the heating system in the building kicks on and scores falling on the floor. The current remastering is a slight improvement over the first CD incarnation but not revelatory, as the first CD issue was. So if one can find those earlier CD issues at a reasonable price then don’t hesitate.
One of the reasons I bought the big Walter box was the realization that once Sony sells out their box sets, the recordings within become available only as mp3 downloads

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’ve owned the Walter on lp, ($2.75)then the first CD reissue, then Sony issued a little box of all their WalterMahler recordings for about $10 with what appears to be the same remastering as the big Walter box that I recently purchased. I remember when I bought the first CD incarnation being astounded by the dynamic range and detail relative to my aural memory of the lp. One can also hear when the heating system in the building kicks on and scores falling on the floor. The current remastering is a slight improvement over the first CD incarnation but not revelatory, as the first CD issue was. So if one can find those earlier CD issues at a reasonable price then don’t hesitate.
One of the reasons I bought the big Walter box was the realization that once Sony sells out their box sets, the recordings within become available only as mp3 downloads

Yep those sixties mikes were unbelievably sensitive - some still in use now. The difference was in those days the page turns might get lost in the hiss and the central heating hidden by turntable rumble !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Do you have similar issues with Paris, Berlin, Copenhagen, Rome, Florence, Venice? If all 'English' pronunciations of foreign place names get banned we'll never dare say anything!

I suppose it goes back to the time when Lyon and Marseille had the letter S added, in order to make them look more French!
But Byoodapest? It should be more like Boodapesht.

For the other place names you've mentioned, I have particular issues with Firenze, our version it being so far removed from the Italian one.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I suppose it goes back to the time when Lyon and Marseille had the letter S added, in order to make them look more French!
But Byoodapest? It should be more like Boodapesht.

For the other place names you've mentioned, I have particular issues with Firenze, our version it being so far removed from the Italian one.

Always found it interesting that the Chinese government through lobbying got broadcasters and politicians to change from Peking to Bejing
but we anglicise Roma , Firenze, Paris, Milan , München, Etc etc. I think in the China case it is a political power play - almost a kind of grooming.

[Bryn]

Always found it interesting that the Chinese government through lobbying got broadcasters and politicians to change from Peking to Bejing
but we anglicise Roma , Firenze, Paris, Milan , München, Etc etc. I think in the China case it is a political power play - almost a kind of grooming.

It's actually much simpler. China moved from the Eurocentric Wade-Giles romanistion to the more sinoohone Hanyu Pinyin. "Peking" is the Wade-Giles version and "Beijing" the Pinyin. Interesting, though, that Hong-Kong continues to be the standard international name for Xiāng gǎng.

[gurnemanz]

My wife has relations in Cologne (Köln) and we have frequently driven back to UK via Belgium. A potential source of confusion as you get beyond Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) are the signposts referring to Luik, Lüttich and Liège which are of course the same place in Dutch, German and French.

[Bryn]

Listening to the remastered CSO/Walter now. Certainly a sonic improvement on my memories of the LP version. Too many other things to do, so I do not intend spinning the 20-bit transfer from the 13 CD "Original Jackets" box to compare with that, too.