BaL 5.12.20 - Strauss: Horn Concerto no. 2

[kernelbogey]

The approach was slightly different but I enjoyed the review. The reference to hornists tending to be either "wind players" or "brass players" was new to me and seemed to this non-specialist to be quite apposite, also when she, as a Berlin resident, included a little bit of inadvertent German, referring to "the vibrato which Peter Damm hat". I've heard the type of horn mishap to which even top players can be prone (we had an example) referred to in Germany as a "Hornkickser", but hadn't comes across the horn described as a "Glücksspirale", a nice image to convey the randomness of what might come out when you blow into it.

I enjoyed the reviewer's voice: as a German speaker, like Herr Gurney , I get caught up in observing the nuances. I too caught the 'Peter Damm hat' slip - not unlike a 'Gustav Mahler hut' kind of slip - and kept noticing her vowels..... But I digress. I enjoyed the review and especially the plethora of short clips. It was clearly an edited conversation - some of the edits were audible, and her changes of tone too.

Why shouldn't she recommend a friend as soloist with her own orchestra? Reviews of anything are bound to be subjective, and she talked a lot about the German style of playing that she is now anchored in.

A really good BaL IMVVHO.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Anyone wanting the 'unavailable' Vlatkovic of which Sarah spoke highly can find a not too extortionate copy here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Radovan-Vla...=music&sr=1-19 ........

Also available on Naxos Music Library - Warner Parlophone Catalogue No.: 5099926662855.
(Naxos ML: http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7506-Online-Naxos-music-library/page2)

[Rolmill]

Ms Willis didn't IIRC dismiss a single recording as badly played, misguided in tempi or anything else: she had a good word for all the soloists it seemed. Very kind of her, but not quite BaL as we usually know it! Her key criterion at the close seemed to be whether the horn player had the sort of Germanic tone she likes, though she didn't try to say this was necessary for all listeners. Perhaps all this shows that as long as you get the notes right (or generally right in the case of Von Freiburg) the work will come out fine? So maybe not a classic BaL subject at all?

With Brain, Damm and Pyatt already on the shelves I don't think I'll be rushing for another version, but will try to remember to snap up the Karajan/ BPO if I ever see it at a sensible price.

I have those three recordings as well - but the very positive approach that you noted drew my attention to a few others. If I see the Hauptmann or the Baumann in a charity shop I'll be tempted.

I agree with others that the absence of a whittling down structure was unusual, but I thought this was one of the most interesting, informative and entertaining BaLs in recent months. It reminded me what a lovely piece it is - pace some rather disparaging posts near the beginning of this thread!

[ardcarp]

I thought this was one of the most interesting, informative and entertaining BaLs in recent months. It reminded me what a lovely piece it is -

Absolutely agree. To have a top-rate 'practitioner' was excellent. She herself hinted that 45mins was not long enough for a thorough exploration of the field.
It occurs to me, incidentally, that unlike many other instrumentalists, horn soloists all tend to hold first-rate orchestral posts. I loved the German nickname for the horn, 'Gluckspiral' which she translated as 'lucky spiral'. Maybe 'hopeful spiral' (i.e. hoping not to split too many notes) would be more apt.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I've heard the type of horn mishap to which even top players can be prone (we had an example) referred to in Germany as a "Hornkickser", but hadn't comes across the horn described as a "Glücksspirale", a nice image to convey the randomness of what might come out when you blow into it.

Kickser or Kiekser? I can find only the latter and it seems about right: "a half-suppressed squeak"

[Winsford90]

An entertaining and informative BAL, although a little superficial. Her choice seemed to be solely based on personal sound/style preference - I would have loved to hear more on differences of interpretation.

[ardcarp]

An entertaining and informative BAL, although a little superficial. Her choice seemed to be solely based on personal sound/style preference - I would have loved to hear more on differences of interpretation.

She did mention interpretation in the slow movement, not just about speeds but also about Strauss's marking 'getragen', which she suggested implied 'majestic'.
She also touched on orchestration, especially the complexity of first violin parts...but good heavens, how detailed can you get in 45 mins?

[gurnemanz]

Kickser or Kiekser? I can find only the latter and it seems about right: "a half-suppressed squeak"

I had only ever heard it spoken and Kickser was how it was spelt in my head. Kiekser does seem to be more common but, when googled, Kickser does appear, eg here.

Apropos the mention in the review of Richard's father, Franz, the concerto's dedicatee, I remember reading his first reaction upon being presented with the horn part of Tristan und Isolde, in whose premiere he was due to lead the horn section: "Das kann kein Mensch blasen!", (I imagine it spoken with a fairly strong Bavarian lilt)- "No human being can blow that!"

[silvestrione]

I have the Karajan in the 1960s box where it's coupled with Lothar Koch in the Oboe Concerto which, I think, was itself a BaL winner. A great disc.

Must be the 1970s box, mustn't it? Slip of the pen?

I think I have it somewhere, coupled with an excellent Don Quixote. Also have the Brain in the Philharmonia box. Never listened to either. Certainly will now.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The reference to hornists tending to be either "wind players" or "brass players" was new to me ...

They are part of a woodwind quintet, but the habit of referring to woodwind instruments as simply "wind" is misleading. Any aerophone is a wind instrument, and not just those that appear at the top of an orchestral score.

[Petrushka]

Must be the 1970s box, mustn't it? Slip of the pen?

I think I have it somewhere, coupled with an excellent Don Quixote. Also have the Brain in the Philharmonia box. Never listened to either. Certainly will now.

No, it is disc no 81 in the 1960s box. The anomaly arises as the Oboe Concerto coupling on the original LP (reproduced in the box) was recorded in 1969 with Horn Concerto No 2 being taped on March 8 1973.

You are correct that the concerto was coupled with Don Quixote in the DG Originals series.

[Petrushka]

This was a classic BaL, one of those that makes you appreciate and understand a work that you hadn't really noticed before and excellently done by Sarah Willis.

I've now played the Hauptmann/Karajan disc twice and it's a piece that's really growing on me. Lovely slow movement.

[Richard Barrett]

This was a classic BaL, one of those that makes you appreciate and understand a work that you hadn't really noticed before and excellently done by Sarah Willis.

I've now played the Hauptmann/Karajan disc twice and it's a piece that's really growing on me. Lovely slow movement.

That was in fact the recording I got to know the piece from, although in the end I still prefer the oboe concerto it was originally paired with. Both pieces are a bit let down by their final movements. But then one could say that about very many works of course.

[Nick Armstrong]

Ms Willis didn't IIRC dismiss a single recording as badly played, misguided in tempi or anything else: she had a good word for all the soloists it seemed. Very kind of her, but not quite BaL as we usually know it!

Yes and I loved it, revelling in repeated bits of this wonderful piece which I hadn’t listened to in ages! Great to focus on the differences in instrumental sound, and (like Mark Simpson with his German clarinets) to be made aware of the perils of Vienna horns, and hear other ‘inside details’ about instruments & performers.

Stunned by the accuracy and great recording of the Brain performance - in comparative juxtaposition, the ‘winning’ Berlin version seemed to feature a rather bathroomy orchestral sound-stage but I expect it’s fine listened to in isolation.

And I’m sorry Alpie, but the Peter Damm version sounded fabulous!

.

I find I have 7 of the featured versions ... plus the Vlatkovich...

[Tony Halstead]

My personal interaction with Herr Norbert Hauptmann didn't get off to a particularly good start... in the Summer of 1967, about 6 months after, aged 21, I had joined the BBCSSO as 1st horn, I was introduced to Norbert at the 'Festival Club' at the Edinburgh Festival after a superb BPO concert.
He too had recently been appointed, to the Co-Principal horn job (with Gerd Seifert) in the BPO. He was very jovial, smiley and friendly; and then after a few drinks he started chuckling to himself after we briefly discussed the famous 'Alexander' horns played by the BPO (and at that time, the horn sections of 90% of British orchestras, including myself and the BBCSSO).

I said 'please tell us the joke'!

He replied (perhaps the Malt Whisky talking?) 'You English players make small sound on Alexander horn; we Germans make BIG sound'!

Stunned into silence, I nevertheless found myself muttering, under my breath, that old North-of-England epithet, 'Right, monkey'!
Only 2 weeks later I sold my Alexander horn, determined to strike out in a new direction for 'English horn players' , and, having heard the legendary Myron Bloom of the Cleveland Orchestra in that 1967 Edinburgh Festival, bought a lovely USA-made CONN horn, at that time generally shunned by UK horn players, but since about 1939 the 'default' horn for most USA orchestras, and very audibly by Hollywood film music orchestras.

Norbert's lovely Strauss #2 recording was released in the early 1970s and of course I bought it, on a DG LP. But. oh dear, it always mis-tracked and even brand-new had some scratches on it. To my shame, I never bought the CD version of this wonderful performance.
It was a revelation to hear the extracts chosen by Sarah the other day, and in particular Norbert's beautiful playing of the Coda of the 1st movement.
As it turned out, she was absolutely right with respect to the 'tears inducing' effect of his magical playing in that Coda, which many players rush through, since it is indeed physically exhausting if played in a nostalgic, reflective way, as Norbert does here.

I have now ordered the CD online and look forward to it very much!