BaL 7.11.20 - Beethoven: Piano Sonata No 29 in B flat, Op 106 ‘Hammerklavier’

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did no-one find the very dry and close-up sound of the Gulda disappointing? (And I AM a Gulda fan).

Yes - the close up miking puts too much Hammer in the Klavier. The Brautigam conversely has so much acoustic ( recorded in a church) it sounds like he’s using a lot of pedal when he ain’t . Recording the piano looks easy but isn’t. Sony always seem to record Perahia well though.
I think part of the problem is that pianists often want the dry sounds they hear and not the warmer sound the sound board and lid throws out to the audience. I’ve seen pianists get an agent or lackey in the stalls to check their sound - always a good idea.

[Bryn]

I heard Ashkenazy in the Diabelli, which I thought, ranks amongst the best in the catalogue.

Strangely, the Ashkenazy appears not to be available on QOBUZ, either in its 2007 or 2020 release. However, it is to be found, in data compressed stream, on Spotify and Deezer. Perhaps that is why it had entirely escaped my attention until now. Thanks, Bbm for mentioning it. Now streaming from Spotify, which it turns out, I had subscribed to some years ago but not accessed since. I'll just have to put up with the occasional ads.

[Alison]

And Pollini.

Agreed.

[BBMmk2]

Strangely, the Ashkenazy appears not to be available on QOBUZ, either in its 2007 or 2020 release. However, it is to be found, in data compressed stream, on Spotify and Deezer. Perhaps that is why it had entirely escaped my attention until now. Thanks, Bbm for mentioning it. Now streaming from Spotify, which it turns out, I had subscribed to some years ago but not accessed since. I'll just have to put up with the occasional ads.

That’s how I heard it, via Spotify. I have Spotify Premium. Well worth it.

[Bryn]

That’s how I heard it, via Spotify. I have Spotify Premium. Well worth it.

Is Spotify Premium still only 320kbps mp3? That's not even up to Radio 3 via Sounds (aac is step up from mp3 in audio quality at the same data rate). QOBUZ, for a similar subscription rate to Spotify Premium, provides lossless compression up to 96/24 audio quality. It's just annoying that QOBUZ does not have this particular recording in its catalogue at the moment. While off-topic and mentioning the Diabellis, I have just ordered the Geza Anda, who recorded rather little Beethoven.

[prb]

Strangely, the Ashkenazy appears not to be available on QOBUZ, either in its 2007 or 2020 release. However, it is to be found, in data compressed stream, on Spotify and Deezer. Perhaps that is why it had entirely escaped my attention until now. Thanks, Bbm for mentioning it. Now streaming from Spotify, which it turns out, I had subscribed to some years ago but not accessed since. I'll just have to put up with the occasional ads.

It's here on Qobuz: https://play.qobuz.com/album/0002894758660 (hope that link works)

[Bryn]

It's here on Qobuz: https://play.qobuz.com/album/0002894758660 (hope that link works)

Thanks. I searched and searched for it with a variety of search criteria, without success. What criteria di you use to find it.

Very strange - the QOBUZ offering has an extra track, not listed for the CD, the first of the Op. 33 Bagatelles.

[prb]

Thanks. I searched and searched for it with a variety of search criteria, without success. What criteria di you use to find it.

Just 'Diabelli', then scrolled down (a brute force approach).

[silvestrione]

---

Had time to do some listening. Rosen, Schnabel, Brendel, Vogel, Levitt , Roberts , Kempff. You are absolutely right - Legato pedalling the norm though Brendel starts Bar 27 as written - detached chords and then the pedal comes in . At one point you can even hear the damper action - maybe too closely miked or just not quick enough on the clutch? Roberts starts detached and no pedal at bar 27 and then seems to pedal the first beat in the bar thereafter - cant quite work it out. Rosen as you say scrupulously obeys the markings giving almost a staccato feel which gives this F sharp minor section a drunken lurchy waltz feel . I like it . Tovey though says this must be avoided by not accenting the F sharp bass if I interpret him correctly - whatever. I dont envy the reviewer - there's so much masterly playing - some of the chord voicing is miraculous. Maybe Schnabel wins the palm...

I have now listened again to Arrau's very fine performance, and indeed he plays this section largely as written as well, hardly any pedal. It comes across as strange, slightly unsettling, but more Beethovenian than Italianate or Chopinesque. Arrau is light on pedal all through the sonata, by the way, so there's great clarity. I've always loved his first movement, the way it surges and falls back and surges forward again. The counterpoint in the last movement has great clarity.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I have now listened again to Arrau's very fine performance, and indeed he plays this section largely as written as well, hardly any pedal. It comes across as strange, slightly unsettling, but more Beethovenian than Italianate or Chopinesque. Arrau is light on pedal all through the sonata, by the way, so there's great clarity. I've always loved his first movement, the way it surges and falls back and surges forward again. The counterpoint in the last movement has great clarity.

Yes as I said in an earlier post the Uchida recording that came out on top is light on pedal. I don’t know the Arrau recording but from your description it sounds like one that should at least have merited a mention . I greatly prefer his style of piano playing to Gulda who was generously excerpted ( if that is a verb) .

[jayne lee wilson]

Dear S, Dear L etc..........

1) Shake head.
2) Smile.
3) Shrug shoulders......

Reflect upon the wonderfully diversionary, tangential and wide-ranging discussions the forum often broadens out to....and then say something like...."just to get back on topic, anyone heard the new Barenboim?"

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-piano-sonatas-nos-27-32-daniel-barenboim/bl0292og4t3pc

[Bryn]

Dear S, Dear L etc..........

1) Shake head.
2) Smile.
3) Shrug shoulders......

Reflect upon the wonderfully diversionary, tangential and wide-ranging discussions the forum often broadens out to....and then say something like...."just to get back on topic, anyone heard the new Barenboim?"

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/be.../bl0292og4t3pc

Thanks. Just started listening to Op. 90 and happy to find the recordings available at 96/24, so lower latency at all stages of production, and respectable dynamic range. Both consideration of some importance when discussing recordings of any work by any performer(s). Such a shame that some here appear to think otherwise.

Op.106 about to begin.

Oh dear, this scherzo really drags. Pretty damned lifeless, indeeed.

[silvestrione]

Thanks. Just started listening to Op. 90 and happy to find the recordings available at 96/24, so lower latency at all stages of production, and respectable dynamic range. Both consideration of some importance when discussing recordings of any work by any performer(s). Such a shame that some here appear to think otherwise.

Op.106 about to begin.

Oh dear, this scherzo really drags. Pretty damned lifeless, indeeed.

I hope that's not aimed at me. Of course sound quality is an issue. But if you look back through (though I don't know where they've gone!) I think we had more than one page of posts not referring to a Beethoven recording at all.

I apologise if I caused upset or resentment: my post was meant to be light-hearted, hence the 'referee' bit, but did come out less so than I intended, because I was frustrated I suppose by coming back and back to the thread expecting to find further thoughts on op 106.

I loved Barenboim's playing back in the 70s, but, alas, it's a long time since I've purchased any recording of his. I was looking forward to hearing someone report on the new release.

[Bryn]

I hope that's not aimed at me. Of course sound quality is an issue. But if you look back through (though I don't know where they've gone!) I think we had more than one page of posts not referring to a Beethoven recording at all.

I apologise if I caused upset or resentment: my post was meant to be light-hearted, hence the 'referee' bit, but did come out less so than I intended, because I was frustrated I suppose by coming back and back to the thread expecting to find further thoughts on op 106.

I loved Barenboim's playing back in the 70s, but, alas, it's a long time since I've purchased any recording of his. I was looking forward to hearing someone report on the new release.

Fear not, "advisors advise - ministers decide".

I was very much taken with Barenboim's first recorded survey of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas with opus numbers, as I was with the many of the insights of his masterclass DVDs on the same works. However, this latest recording of Op. 106 I would describe as both tired and consequentably soperific. I will have to go back to his earlier surveys to check whether it is he who has changed in approach to the works or that I have shifted mine.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Fear not, "advisors advise - ministers decide".

I was very much taken with Barenboim's first recorded survey of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas with opus numbers, as I was with the many of the insights of his masterclass DVDs on the same works. However, this latest recording of Op. 106 I would describe as both tired and consequentably soperific. I will have to go back to his earlier surveys to check whether it is he who has changed in approach to the works or that I have shifted mine.

It’s interesting that in some of his very earliest 70’s masterclasses Barenboim put huge emphasis on characterising the music and not just note spinning . One example I remember is his playing of the andante from the Op 28 Pastoral where I think he even refers to creating a woodwind Sound in the dotted quaver D major chords and then a contrasting sound with the right hand twiddly bit that answers the block chords . Spin to his last tv masterclass and after a (staggeringly virtuosic ) Appassionata 1st movt from Lang Lang he made a few paragraphing suggestions. After a very slightly rhythmically wayward first movement of an early sonata played by another pianist he starts clapping to keep him in time - the world’s most expensive metronome. I wonder if he’s mellowed a bit . I also think that there are very many pianists who can play the Hammerklavier very well but very few conductors who can produce a Ring cycle of the quality of the one at the Proms a few seasons back. Homer occasionally nods...