BaL 7.11.20 - Beethoven: Piano Sonata No 29 in B flat, Op 106 ‘Hammerklavier’

[Bryn]

Binns on the Haschka of c1825 is absolutely terrific - playing, instrument, recording. And it seems to be readily available on a twofer of the late sonatas:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-P...s=music&sr=1-1

Pro-rata, even cheaper with all the other piano sonatas with opus numbers, plus a good range of other l'Oiseau-lyre recordings in their Classical and Early Romantic 50 CD boxed set from an eBay supplier (£103.96 including p&p). That's rather more than I paid for it at the time of its release but it's still a considerable bargain at just over £2 per disc: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classical...MAAOSwfaZfYMAm

[Bryn]

Currently spinning here is Yves Nat recording from the Membran box. His tempi are not that far from those adopted by Brautigam.

Here's the data compressed Youtube version:

[verismissimo]

Binns on the Haschka of c1825 is absolutely terrific - playing, instrument, recording. And it seems to be readily available on a twofer of the late sonatas:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-P...s=music&sr=1-1

I've now re-listened to Binns's Op 101 (1816) recording which precedes his Op 106 (1818-19) on the same CD. They are played on two different instruments - Op 101 on a French Erard of 1818, Op 106 on the Viennese Georg Haschka of c 1825 - and although only seven years apart they seem to be in different worlds, the Haschka sounding much more like a modern piano.

The Haschka remains wooden framed, but has (according to the notes) a 'heavy framework that keeps this type of wooden-framed instrument particularly stable'.

[Bryn]

I've now re-listened to Binns's Op 101 (1816) recording which precedes his Op 106 (1818-19) on the same CD. They are played on two different instruments - Op 101 on a French Erard of 1818, Op 106 on the Viennese Georg Haschler of c 1825 - and although only seven years apart they seem to be in different worlds, the Haschler sounding much more like a modern piano.

The Haschler remains wooden framed, but has (according to the notes) a 'heavy framework that keeps this type of wooden-framed instrument particularly stable'.

Haschler? Is that yet another alternative spelling? I have seen both Hasska and Haschka but Haschler is new to me. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...hasska&f=false

[verismissimo]

Haschler? Is that yet another alternative spelling? I have seen both Hasska and Haschka but Haschler is new to me. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...hasska&f=false

Oops.

[MickyD]

I've now re-listened to Binns's Op 101 (1816) recording which precedes his Op 106 (1818-19) on the same CD. They are played on two different instruments - Op 101 on a French Erard of 1818, Op 106 on the Viennese Georg Haschler of c 1825 - and although only seven years apart they seem to be in different worlds, the Haschka sounding much more like a modern piano.

The Haschka remains wooden framed, but has (according to the notes) a 'heavy framework that keeps this type of wooden-framed instrument particularly stable'.

The same Haschka instrument can be heard to great effect in Mendelssohn's First Piano Concerto with Christopher Kite and the Hanover Band on Nimbus. It's a thrilling performance and the instrument particularly shows its charms in the slow movement.

[shadybarkis]

Binns on the Haschka of c1825 is absolutely terrific - playing, instrument, recording. And it seems to be readily available on a twofer of the late sonatas:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-P...s=music&sr=1-1

Thanks for the link and I may well order that twofer provided it comes with a woofer! I have many f-p traversals but few possess a more fulsome sound than my upright Bechstein Medieval model but Brautigam is an exception. I just feel that in this repetory LvB would plump for the Steinway of Perahia in preference to the fortepiano. As I'm here let me share my prognostications for Saturday and to mention that they are all remarked on here but I chose them before I rejoined this august gathering a few days ago. (1) Gilels. (2) Perahia. (3) Brautigam. Joint Archival choices - Solomon/Yudina.

[Bryn]

Thanks for the link and I may well order that twofer provided it comes with a woofer! I have many f-p traversals but few possess a more fulsome sound than my upright Bechstein Medieval model but Brautigam is an exception. I just feel that in this repetory LvB would plump for the Steinway of Perahia in preference to the fortepiano. As I'm here let me share my prognostications for Saturday and to mention that they are all remarked on here but I chose them before I rejoined this august gathering a few days ago. (1) Gilels. (2) Perahia. (3) Brautigam. Joint Archival choices - Solomon/Yudina.

Hmm. Which of the two main uses of "fulsome" did yo intend, there?

[silvestrione]

Thanks for the link and I may well order that twofer provided it comes with a woofer! I have many f-p traversals but few possess a more fulsome sound than my upright Bechstein Medieval model but Brautigam is an exception. I just feel that in this repetory LvB would plump for the Steinway of Perahia in preference to the fortepiano. As I'm here let me share my prognostications for Saturday and to mention that they are all remarked on here but I chose them before I rejoined this august gathering a few days ago. (1) Gilels. (2) Perahia. (3) Brautigam. Joint Archival choices - Solomon/Yudina.

I would have thought Gilels was too leisurely and idiosyncratic in the first movement, thoughtful as he is. He does strange things with the anticipations of the fanfare at the beginning and end of the development. and gives the whole movement a tragic feel, IMV, even before we get to the B Minor outburst.

[rauschwerk]

It's a singular choice of BaL work, isn't it? I sometimes wonder if it can be fully understood without specialist knowledge. Perhaps one of the popular nicknamed sonatas (Moonlight, Tempest, Waldstein, Appassionata) would have been a better choice.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I just feel that in this repetory LvB would plump for the Steinway of Perahia in preference to the fortepiano.

We’ll never know the answer to that, but anecdotal evidence does suggest that Beethoven opted for the newly developing bigger instruments as they emerged during his lifetime. But in the end, it’s what we - today’s listeners - would like to hear. In this we have a choice, even though factionalism persists.

[Maclintick]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned so far in this thread is that, unique among his piano sonatas, Beethoven provided his own metronome markings for Op. 106. 1. Allegro, minim=138; 2. Scherzo: Assai vivace, dotted minim=80; 3. Adagio sostenuto, quaver=92, 4. Largo - Allegro risoluto, crotchet=144. While these may aeem way too fast for a modern grand, on an 1820s instrument of Viennese action they are acheivable to good effect.

See https://notat.io/viewtopic.php?t=538 for further discussion.

Many thanks for this link, Bryn. Leaving the vexed question of tempi aside for a moment, I've just been blown away by Brautigam's riveting account, & would echo Rauschwerk's & others' admiration for the miraculous range of sonic and emotional gradations he achieves on his chosen instrument (1819 Graf copy by Paul McNulty ?) In the shifting textures of the adagio, una corde, due corde, tutte le corde, there are passages I presume can only be fully realised on a historical instrument, or reproduction ?

As to tempo, pace John Ruggero etc, in movt 1 Brautigam opts not for minim = 138 but a standard line-&-length at a tad under 110. To your and Ruggero's observations vis-a-vis Czerny, I add that Brendel observes (Music Sounded Out pp. 66 --67 ) that LVB changed his mind about the original Allegro Assai, rescinding the "assai" from the first published version. (The Notatio blog has some interesting comments from a poster identifying as Vaughan, on the ways in which a performer's mental conception of tempo can differ radically from eventual practice...)

[shadybarkis]

Hmm. Which of the two main uses of "fulsome" did yo intend, there?

Not in the sense of the praise you are about to lavish upon me but, clearly, abundant in the context of sonority! Hmm.

[Bryn]

Not in the sense of the praise you are about to lavish upon me but, clearly, abundant in the context of sonority! Hmm.

Such a problematic word. One can never be quite sure whether the positive or negative interpretation is intended.

[shadybarkis]

I would have thought Gilels was too leisurely and idiosyncratic in the first movement, thoughtful as he is. He does strange things with the anticipations of the fanfare at the beginning and end of the development. and gives the whole movement a tragic feel, IMV, even before we get to the B Minor outburst.

I agree with you that at the beginning of the development section there is a curious lacuna but, as if to atone for it. the passage following is pure mercury. Horowitz did not record this sonata and I, for one, am grateful' But Gilels idiosyncratic? Have you heard, the otherwise redoubtable, Cherkassy? Indeed has anyone???