BaL 10.10.20 - Brahms: Piano Quintet in F minor

[richardfinegold]

Who won?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Who won?

Takacs and Andras Schiff on Hyperion.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Who won?

Normally, you can look at the list on the OP, where the winner is highlighted in red, with other recommendations in amber.

[Bryn]

Takacs and Andras Schiff on Hyperion.

So no streaming. Best to catch it tomorrow night.

[vinteuil]

Takacs and Andras Schiff on Hyperion.

The Takács quartet with András Schiff are on Decca 4756525 - a twofer. Or download.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00076YNGY

( the hyperion release is the Takács with Stephen Hough -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000WE5G62 )

.


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[Bryn]

... on Decca 4756525 - a twofer. Or download.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00076YNGY

.

Ah, so not Hyperion (as in #122) and therefore entirely streamable.

[richardfinegold]

Isn’t the Emerson one with Fleisher (I have it) rather than Pressler?

Yes, I think when I was typing this my mind jumped to the Schumann Quintet with Pressler and the Emersons. I just listened to the Fleisher/Emerson recording now. The Fleisher/Juilliard was my only recording for years and that is the one that has settled in the brain. The Emerson version benefits mainly from the improved recording, being able to hear some low level string detail that I don’t recall knowing before

[CallMePaul]

Probably the wrong thread, but did anyone else listen on to the reviews with Mark Simpson? I thought this was awful, he seemed to have a very limited critical vocabulary, used ‘fantastic’ at least six times, very reluctant to say anything negative, and ‘ummed and aaahed’ throughout. Obviously very nervous, probably hus first time broadcasting anything of this nature, but seemed way out of his ‘critical’ depth.

I agree entirely. Performing musicians are rarely the best reviewers or verbal communicators in general, but they seem to be the "go-to" choice in many circumstances for R3 management.

[jayne lee wilson]

BRAHMS OP34 BAL. LUCY PARHAM/AMCG

Clear early on that Parham was offering a personal selection, and by a professional pianist as well, which perhaps narrowed the scope and interest here, as she spoke of the contrast between the virtuoso-concerto/intimate-chamber approaches…. in fact this particular comparison wasn’t made much of. Parham simply picked out various specifics in her chosen few, without any longer or deeper historical or musical perspective.
Harsh perhaps, but I missed any real individuality or originality in her comments, which had been such an enjoyable feature of Frolowa-Walker’s focus on the Schumann 3rd last week. I’m afraid most of the commentary on Op.34 was restricted to rather commonplace and clichéd adjectival description. (Parham is of course a very accomplished presenter and musician in other contexts).

There is always the feeling with BaL now that the editors/contributors simply haven’t kept up with recent releases, or even those for the last 10 years….and the inclusion of period instruments is still very patchy, compartmentalised, and can be dated in its attitudes. These recordings have changed our audition and perception of the music, and any half- decent critic needs to acknowledge that, whatever their own subjective response.
The severing of the close ties between Radio 3 and Gramophone had far-reaching consequences, none of them beneficial. Surveys like BaL or IoR really need that eagle’s-eye obsessiveness, that years’-long labour of love which very few collector-reviewers can bring to it. Even if you disagree with Cowan or Service , you know they have cast their net wide.

So my own response was inevitably lukewarm….
From the instant-response notes…..

Ashenazy/Cleveland: nothing special really….decent MOR……
Schiff/Takacs: yes, more insightful….… need more……
Curzon/Amadeus: distant unengaging sound……some poor piano/strings coordination…. loose….
Richter/Borodin: fluffy plano sound, harsh HF strings…..offputting despite Richter doing what he uniquely does….
Hough/Takacs: Much better, some grip and drama, 1st one I really enjoyed!
Staier/Leipzig: Wonderful! But …. a favourite of mine for many years in marvellous MDG sound, so I would say that wouldn’t I……
Andsnes/Artemis: LP praising the attack here, but if only she knew Gaia Scienza who knock this into a cocked hat…(cover art, Brahms with a gun to, or inside, his head, & quotes from Brahms about suicide, sums it up well...that would shake up the BaL wouldn't it?...and concentrate the minds of its listeners wonderfully...)

Serkin/Busch: lovely, and very intense in the finale…
Ashkenazy/Cleveland again: no, still don’t get it. Undistinguished to these ears…
Schiff/Takacs again: not a bad all-round choice really…much depth and detail

And so on……

Given the difficulty of the very concept of BaL now, the recent suggestion here that the best approach to it would be an update on recent recordings, matched against the classics and choices of the past, is spot-on. Like a Penguin Guide Yearbook. Imagine taking on Beethoven Symphonies or Piano Concertos now, without casting a keen eye over all the 2020 releases!

[ostuni]

Thanks, jlw, for reminding me about the Ironwood recording, in an earlier post. It's been in my Qobuz must-listen list for some time now, but I finally got round to listening to the first movement yesterday. Gorgeous sonorities (yes, that Streicher piano sounds rather more suited to Brahms than does the Gaia Scienza one: I've had the latter recording for years, very much like the string playing, but find the piano a little too hair-shirt...).

Super string playing from the Australian group; I don’t find their portamenti as offputting as some listeners have reported. The one aspect that I *do* need to get used to, I think, is the piano style: all those spread chords. I know Neil PdC has done more research than probably any other performing academic in this area, and I'm happy to believe that his playing style would sound more familiar to Brahms than, say, András Schiff's would. And he certainly doesn’t go in for the (to my ears) wilfully exaggerated desynchronization between hands as heard in those recent Schubert sonata recordings by Tobias Koch. Nevertheless, it's plenty different from what we've all grown up with...

[akiralx]

Piano quintets are something I "do" from time to time. There aren't many of them about, even though there are pianists and string quartet's galore. It's odd that Schubert's is the most popular, despite having different instrumentation (which means I've never played it, as string quartets with double basses are as rare as an honest politician).

I recommend the Zarebski Quintet as recorded on Hyperion, played by the Szymanowski Qtt and pianist Jonathan Plowright.

[verismissimo]

An addition to JLW's interesting #129: I would add Lindsays/Frankl, which I heard in the 5 minutes I caught of the programme. Lucy Parham approved of it, but it apparently disappeared thereafter.

The sad thing about that recording is that it followed the Lindsays and Friends Romantic Festival at Blackheath Halls - some 25+ concerts including this quintet (organised by me!). All the Lindsay's performances were recorded live by ASV, but the only performances to be issued were of Brahms SQ2 and the incandescent Mendelssohn Op 80.

That was during the long period when recording companies were pathologically opposed to any stray noises off in live recordings. But I remember the performance itself, which was a real step above the studio recording in terms of spontaneity, of course. Happily we now have different tastes!

Perhaps it still lurks in a company archive - I gather Universal owns the ASV stuff now.

[Goon525]

An addition to JLW's interesting #129: I would add Lindsays/Frankl, which I heard in the 5 minutes I caught of the programme. Lucy Parham approved of it, but it apparently disappeared thereafter.

The sad thing about that recording is that it followed the Lindsays and Friends Romantic Festival at Blackheath Halls - some 25+ concerts including this quintet (organised by me!). All the Lindsay's performances were recorded live by ASV, but the only performances to be issued were of Brahms SQ2 and the incandescent Mendelssohn Op 80.

That was during the long period when recording companies were pathologically opposed to any stray noises off in live recordings. But I remember the performance itself, which was a real step above the studio recording in terms of spontaneity, of course. Happily we now have different tastes!

Perhaps it still lurks in a company archive - I gather Universal owns the ASV stuff now.

Happy memories though I have of hearing the Lindsays live, it has to be admitted that leader Peter Cropper’s intonation problems could often render issuing their live performances on CD pretty moot. In fact, some of their live Haydn which was issued on CD can sound pretty gruesome at times - arguably worth listening through the intonation issues for the sheer quality of the interpretations, but...

[rauschwerk]

It is rumoured that this guy held masterclasses for prom audiences! Why on earth was this not digitised out - imagine owning the disc and having your finger over the stop button every time you play it - I’ll stick with my Frankl/Lindsays though like you I might throw a few quid at the Schiff!

I had given up playing this CD after a couple of hearings. Long ago I tried copying to minidisc and editing but with no luck. However, I have just been moved to try more sophisticated editing (Nero) and have achieved a result which, though not perfect, means I can now play the Curzon/Amadeus version without dreading that ridiculous shout!