BaL 3.10.20 - Schumann: Symphony no. 3 "Rhenish"

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well, that paddle steamer is making a few waves around here, isn't it?

From the note to the DG recording of the Schumann Complete cycle, by Yannick Nézet-Séguin and the COE.

“The Rhine runs through the work, as it did through Schumann’s life – even to the extent that, in his deepest depression, he threw himself into its waters. Nézet-Séguin owes an insight to the great Italian conductor Carlo Maria Giulini. “I remember him telling me that the viola and second violin figures right at the start – those repeated quavers – are like the sound of the wheels of a paddle boat on the Rhine: it really gives the piece a sense of starting a journey.”

As aforesaid, Rattle (trust him) brings out this lovely, gentle rhythmic underpinning better than any I’ve heard; very few render it audible, let alone telling. Yes, a given reading can survive and move without it. But how lovely it is, when it is made to count upon the heart and ear.

Thanks so much . My inference was wrong - it does refer to a sonic effect like Britten’s in Death in Venice after all...

[cloughie]

How SILLY of me not to have read the liner notes in question! I'm feeling thicker by the minute.

You missed the Quobus

[LMcD]

I'm not jlw but, like her, I'm a regular Qobuzzer. One of the best things about that platform is the presence of the booklet texts for almost all recent recordings there: here's the relevant bit from the YNS booklet:

Nézet-Séguin owes an insight to the great Italian conductor Carlo Maria Giulini. “I remember him telling me that the viola and second violin figures right at the start – those repeated quavers – are like the sound of the wheels of a paddle boat on the Rhine: it really gives the piece a sense of starting a journey.

Ah well, I was too slow with my copying and pasting...

Well, you're clearly not as slow as I am!
What's the Quobus?
What's a Qobuzzer [sic - no 'u']?

[vinteuil]

.

Well, that paddle steamer is making a few waves around here, isn't it?

From the note to the DG recording of the Schumann Complete cycle, by Yannick Nézet-Séguin and the COE.
[I]
“The Rhine runs through the work, as it did through Schumann’s life – even to the extent that, in his deepest depression, he threw himself into its waters. Nézet-Séguin owes an insight to the great Italian conductor Carlo Maria Giulini. “I remember him telling me that the viola and second violin figures right at the start – those repeated quavers – are like the sound of the wheels of a paddle boat on the Rhine: it really gives the piece a sense of starting a journey.”

... ah, but was Schumann thinking of the steamers of the the Preußisch-Rheinische Dampfschiffahrtsgesellschaft or the Dampfschiffahrts-Gesellschaft für den Nieder- und Mittelrhein? I think we should be told...

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[Ein Heldenleben]

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... ah, but was Schumann thinking of the steamers of the the Preußisch-Rheinische Dampfschiffahrtsgesellschaft or the Dampfschiffahrts-Gesellschaft für den Nieder- und Mittelrhein? I think we should be told...

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Tell me you had to look those names up and don’t collect old Rhine Paddle steamer timetables ...

[Bryn]

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... ah, but was Schumann thinking of the steamers of the the Preußisch-Rheinische Dampfschiffahrtsgesellschaft or the Dampfschiffahrts-Gesellschaft für den Nieder- und Mittelrhein? I think we should be told...

.

Damn it sir. I am going to have to look them up . How vexing!?

[Joseph K]

Damn it sir. I am going to have to look them up . How vexing!?

[Richard Barrett]

What's a Qobuzzer [sic - no 'u']?

Just a wild guess but - someone who has a subscription to Qobuz (sic)? - a streaming/download service mentioned several times a day on this forum.

[Richard Barrett]

I think you've rather missed the point of my message

We're getting into too many layers of irony now, I can't keep up with it. Let's maybe wipe that slate clean. Yes I was being sarcastic and I apologise, it's unbecoming, and if I have any excuse it's that various annoying things I won't bore you with have made me edgy and irritable today. Life is annoying enough without bringing one's annoyance into a forum like this.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thank you, Richard. We do need to draw a line under this. With so many interesting comments on a thread such as this one, person rancour between forum members is out of place.

[cloughie]

Indeed, not a term I had previously come across, though it does appear to be pretty self-explanatory. Nonetheless, I did DuckDuckGo it to make sure. Having done so, I am not sure it entirely fits the bill. It is possible that what was being tilted at was a perceived cliquishness in the mode of discussions on this forum. I feel that any such perception to be mistaken, very much in the same realm as associations of interest in 'classical music' with elitism. This is an Internet forum. It is open to all who might wish to participate while following its house rules. Different contributors will express their views according to their own style. If a given style comes across as somewhat esoteric, one has easy recourse to clarification via speedily accessible Internet resources without knowing digs at those expressing their points in terms that, for a given reader, seem somewhat obscure. I am reminded of having been challenged some time ago for using the term scordatura in a forum post. I had assumed that those participating in the discussion would be familiar with what to me was a common musical term. Not so, it seemed. However, I contend that if the term was new to others, all they had to do was look it up, either in a dictionary or via the very medium the forum was hosted by. I do not think it seemly to be challenged for communicating in terms easily within reach of comprehension. In that respect, I think I do see that jlw is getting at, and concur with what I perceive as the essence of it.

On the other hand I think that asking for clarification is appropriate particularly when googling hasn’t given the answer!

[Bryn]

On the other hand I think that asking for clarification is appropriate particularly when googling hasn’t given the answer!

Sorry, that dead horse has been duly flogged.

[cloughie]

Sorry, that dead horse has been duly flogged.

Keen on your equine analogies this evening Bryn. The a nod's as good as a

[Darloboy]

I've not heard this, but to leave out Sawallisch (a standard recommendation for many years - and no reason for it not to continue to be so) and JEG/ORR seems perverse.

I don't know if this has been mooted before, but it seems to me that in re-reviews of popular repertoire, the starting point should be the previous (or generally acknowledged) recommendation, with subsequent reviews including only newer releases, to see if any can dethrone the incumbent, USW...

I agree, as was the failure to engage with period performances full stop. I suspected that this might the case as soon as I saw that M F-W was the reviewer given that her normal focus is on late 19th c Russian romantic repertoire and I'd question whether she was the right choice for this work.

[Pulcinella]

I agree, as was the failure to engage with period performances full stop. I suspected that this might the case as soon as I saw that M F-W was the reviewer given that her normal focus is on late 19th c Russian romantic repertoire and I'd question whether she was the right choice for this work.

Well, her PhD was on Schumann's symphonies.
Here's an extract from her entry on the University of Cambridge Faculty of Music website,

https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker

I was born and educated in Moscow. My alma mater is the Moscow Conservatoire College (Merzlyakovka), where I was fortunate to study with legendary teachers such as Ekaterina Tsareva and Viktor Frayonov. My education continued at the Moscow Conservatoire proper, where I was an undergraduate and then a graduate student during the exciting times of Gorbachev, perestroika and the demise of the Soviet Union. In 1994 I defended my PhD thesis on Schumann’s symphonies and their influence on Russian music, and in the same year moved to the United Kingdom (for personal, rather than political reasons). Before coming to Cambridge in 2000, I taught at the University of Ulster, Goldsmiths College London and the University of Southampton.