BaL 22.02.20 - Grieg: Holberg Suite

[Maclintick]

Haha, I'm wondering whether I'm reaching for a reductionist bucket : "neo" as Stravinsky's neoclassicism broadens to include neoromanticism (Le Baiser de la Fée)

Go for it, Ed ! The more reductionist buckets the better, IMHO. There's surely more than a dollop of Tchaikovskian neo-romanticism also in Apollon Musagète ?

[Maclintick]

Such speculation does seem me to belong to the realm of "dancing about architecture", a quote of highly contested origins which I first encountered when Nigel Osborne cited it when introducing his own Sinfonia of 1982.

I've not heard this quote, but if it pre-dates 1982 then that reduces the number of contested attributions. I'd like to think it was made by one Frank Vincent Zappa, since its surreal, faux-profound -- apologies for mangled Franglais -- quality sounds like a red herring he'd toss into an interview in order to throw a particularly tiresome journalist off the scent.

[edashtav]

Go for it, Ed ! The more reductionist buckets the better, IMHO. There's surely more than a dollop of Tchaikovskian neo-romanticism also in Apollon Musagète ?

Very true in some recorded versions that I've heard, Maclintick. There was an iconoclastic element in Igor's personality, he was never one to be bound to one 'ism'.

[edashtav]

To get back to Holberg in Marriner's fine reading, I've been studying the Prelude: my word what drive, and how wondrously the lines are tossed between the string sections with no loss of characterisation or gloss! I'm always impressed by the ability of a good band and a technically expert conductor to drop straight onto the pace, articulation, and colour needed from the 'top'. Except for one slightly scrambled viola line this is superb music-making.

By now, you may need a complete contrast. Musical jokes are notoriously difficult to bring off even when created by a brilliant prankster, such as Mozart. Here's a Youtube track that pits elements of the Holberg Prelude against a stretch of the Master's Piano Concerto. I leave you to judge the results but I prefer the Tale the Ancient Marriner.

https://youtu.be/Gmz9nXOoY9w

[Lordgeous]

I think Marriner doesnt get enough praise these days for the brilliance he bought the ASMF to. I think we take their high standard somewhat for granted these days. Their early recordings brought a degree of perfection to a small string orchestra previously unheard of. And live they were phenomenal. I had the priviledge of attending some of their early Kingsway Hall recording sessions which will live forever in my memory. And also years later having had a piece commissioned and premiered by them.

I'm so glad they justifyably 'won' the Holberg contest.

[ardcarp]

I think Marriner doesnt get enough praise these days for the brilliance he bought the ASMF to. I think we take their high standard somewhat for granted these days. Their early recordings brought a degree of perfection to a small string orchestra previously unheard of.

[edashtav]

[visualnickmos]

I think Marriner doesnt get enough praise these days for the brilliance he bought the ASMF to. I think we take their high standard somewhat for granted these days. Their early recordings brought a degree of perfection to a small string orchestra previously unheard of. And live they were phenomenal. I had the priviledge of attending some of their early Kingsway Hall recording sessions which will live forever in my memory. And also years later having had a piece commissioned and premiered by them.

I'm so glad they justifyably 'won' the Holberg contest.

Totally agree. Their 'Holberg' is a wonderful rendition. I have a fair number of their recordings in my collection, and even the more familiar ones offer the same feeling of freshness and vitality on repeated listening.

[cloughie]

Totally agree. Their 'Holberg' is a wonderful rendition. I have a fair number of their recordings in my collection, and even the more familiar ones offer the same feeling of freshness and vitality on repeated listening.

...and too many seem to have written him off for not being hipp!

[Maclintick]

To get back to Holberg in Marriner's fine reading, I've been studying the Prelude: my word what drive, and how wondrously the lines are tossed between the string sections with no loss of characterisation or gloss! I'm always impressed by the ability of a good band and a technically expert conductor to drop straight onto the pace, articulation, and colour needed from the 'top'. Except for one slightly scrambled viola line this is superb music-making.

When you hear something done as well as this (& I've listened to it several times over the last couple of days) it's salutary to consider how much hard work has gone into it -- the careful balancing of parts and shading of dynamics...Hats off to Sir Neville & his players -- it still sounds superb after all these years ! ( I can't find the dodgy viola entry you refer to, either...)

[edashtav]

When you hear something done as well as this (& I've listened to it several times over the last couple of days) it's salutary to consider how much hard work has gone into it -- the careful balancing of parts and shading of dynamics...Hats off to Sir Neville & his players -- it still sounds superb after all these years ! ( I can't find the dodgy viola entry you refer to, either...)

I'm very much in agreement, after similar close and repeated study, this interpretation, as a friend has written to me, is 'as good as it gets'. Others may do it differently but Sir Neville and his band are utterly convincing and the playing could not be charged with more electricity. ( I don't want to stress the momentary cloudiness in the violas which I may have exaggerated but it comes after the repeated first section; just after the minute mark, there are two/three cascading bars in the violins, then the violas have a more horizontal gurgling figuration (first on one string, then slightly higher on another) , I felt it took one gurgle to achieve unity).
Have I read somewhere that there is a new recording coming out in May? Good luck to it for Marriner and his Merry Minstrels have set an astonishingly high bar.

I've had a great week exploring not only interpretations of this piece but locating the work as seminal amongst those homages and anachronistic works that prefaced neoclassicism. So... hats off to Oliver and (a reticent) Andrew for restoring full vitality to Building a Library.

[MickyD]

...and too many seem to have written him off for not being hipp!

I think he was pretty hipp for his time - he often employed the young Chris Hogwood to prepare the scores of his baroque recordings and to play continuo in the group.

[Pulcinella]

I think he was pretty hipp for his time - he often employed the young Chris Hogwood to prepare the scores of his baroque recordings and to play continuo in the group.

For example for their recording of L'estro armonico, next week's BaL!

[edashtav]

For example for their recording of L'estro armonico, next week's BaL!

I wonder what the Odds are on Nev's horse: 100/1 outsider?

[gurnemanz]

I only recently got the good value 8CD BIS Grieg orchestral collection and got to know the Holberg version from Ole Kristian Ruud with the Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra. It comes across beautifully with a vivid sound picture and I was a bit surprised that the home team, so to speak, didn't get a mention.