BaL 22.02.20 - Grieg: Holberg Suite

[ardcarp]

I'd also mention that AStMF was principally a recording orchestra, and I think they had more rehearsal time than many.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'd also mention that AStMF was principally a recording orchestra, and I think they had more rehearsal time than many.

Weren’t they also the pick of various London orchestras’ string sections and, in the heyday of London as the world centre of classical music recording, able to afford the best ?

[gradus]

I remember Neville Mariner as section principal of the LSO seconds in the great days under Monteux, so no surprise that he understood conducting and how to get the best from string players.

[Barbirollians]

Strange that neither Beecham or Barbirolli seem to have recorded it judging by EA’s list.

[edashtav]

Strange that neither Beecham or Barbirolli seem to have recorded it judging by EA’s list.

I suspect that you're right, Barbirollians, and that there are no complete Recordings from two out of the three great British B… conductors (my third would be Boult). I wonder if the reason is that the Holberg Suite demands a fine string band and ample rehearsal time? I suspect that we all 'know it' because its warm spirit and memorable lyricism can survive a sketchy read through by a Pier Orchestra. Put that sentence another way, I fear that we do not know it inside out. Following some performances with a score, I've begun to realise the detail that Grieg puts into his parts and his frequent divisi dictate that there is no room for passengers. I grew up learning such scores from the Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra and from sitting in the cheap seats close to the back desks of the violins; their frequent economy of bow was a defensive weapon to render inaudible, passages that tested technique.
Is the 1884 piece the start of Neo-Classicism? I don't think so, Stravinsky achieved that in a radical fashion much later in 1921. Neither is it pastiche. Grieg's 'perfumed wig' piece is a re-imaging of the Baroque seen through the dual prisms of Romanticism and Grieg's very individual melodic genius, and, probably, informed by limited knowledge of original models. I've spent this afternoon comparing its technique with Saint-Saens string Sarabande (op 93, 1892). Saint-Saens demands much of his leader, who needs to be a proto-soloist, but the rest of his orchestration is routine and is designed to comfort rather than exceed the elastic limit of a band of modest players. Unlike those who want a HIP version of Holberg, presumably to achieve mastery over details, I do feel that Oliver Condy was right in feeling that the heft of a big band is needed to fully project Grieg's score. I was pleased by to day's BaL because it illuminated this seminal work and I have ordered the recommended version for further study.

[Tony Halstead]

[Alison]

All seems well in BaL land tonight, well done Oliver Condy and Andrew McG; our knowledge of and enthusiasm for this work have gone up a few notches this late winter Saturday.

Great post from Ed to confirm that impression.

[oddoneout]

A musical realisation of.... that unachievable, almost perfect, happiness, contentment.... something we knew and felt, way back, and spend the rest of our lives looking for....often in vain.....

A kind of lost innocence. But we can have it, preciously, for a few minutes, when we hear the Holberg Suite....

I think I love it most when I hear it unexpectedly, on a radio somewhere....

Put your finger on it there Jayne; I agree about the serendipitous happenstance being perhaps the best.

[BBMmk2]

A pity there was no piano versions.

[gradus]

Put your finger on it there Jayne; I agree about the serendipitous happenstance being perhaps the best.

That's often how I react too, it's the spontaneous pleasure at hearing something loved afresh.

[ardcarp]

Is the 1884 piece the start of Neo-Classicism? I don't think so, Stravinsky achieved that in a radical fashion much later in 1921. Neither is it pastiche.

Absolutely agree, though 'homage' seems a reasonable word to use.

It's often discussed in Norway (which was noted for it patronage of Grieg) how 'Norwegian' Grieg's music really is. (Incidentally, Norway didn't become truly independent of Sweden/Denmark until 1905.) Espousing Norwegian folk tales, myths and legends...and of course Ibsen.... Grieg tried his best but, being educated in the Germanic school of composition, things were at best an 'homage'.

This is quite a jolly little overview...possibly an oversimplification for learned Forumistas!

https://prezi.com/2xtoarflml5l/edvard-grieg-norwegian-nationalism/

Norway is a very long thin country divided by fjords and mountain ranges, and folk music traditions varied according to where you came from. It also took a bit of a bashing from ardent Lutherans who at one time disapproved of too much song and dance. But suffice it to say, genuine folk music had more in common with the Irish or Scots traditions than anything you might hear in Grieg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZX0e65xMtw

[edashtav]

Absolutely agree, though 'homage' seems a reasonable word to use.

It's often discussed in Norway (which was noted for it patronage of Grieg) how 'Norwegian' Grieg's music really is. (Incidentally, Norway didn't become truly independent of Sweden/Denmark until 1905.) Espousing Norwegian folk tales, myths and legends...and of course Ibsen.... Grieg tried his best but, being educated in the Germanic school of composition, things were at best an 'homage'.

This is quite a jolly little overview...possibly an oversimplification for learned Forumistas!

https://prezi.com/2xtoarflml5l/edvard-grieg-norwegian-nationalism/

[…]

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A pity there was no piano versions.

Indeed - particularly as it was originally conceived for piano. It’s interesting to compare the broken chord piano figurations in the opening movement with the quite different rhythmic transformation for strings in the later version.

I’ve been practising it on the piano since the broadcast, being a work I’ve toyed with from time to time. Time to get serious!

[CallMePaul]

Indeed - particularly as it was originally conceived for piano. It’s interesting to compare the broken chord piano figurations in the opening movement with the quite different rhythmic transformation for strings in the later version.

I’ve been practising it on the piano since the broadcast, being a work I’ve toyed with from time to time. Time to get serious!

No explanation was given as to why only the orchestral version was considered. I for one would have liked to hear some versions of the original - I have a hunch that I might even prefer it, as I do the original piano version of Musorgsky's Pictures from an Exhibition to any of the orchestrations.

[edashtav]

Indeed - particularly as it was originally conceived for piano. It’s interesting to compare the broken chord piano figurations in the opening movement with the quite different rhythmic transformation for strings in the later version.
[…]

I feel your thoughts, Alpie, could be used by Oliver to defend his position of not including examples of the original piano version: Grieg did more than arrange his piano score in his orchestration, I feel that he recomposed it afresh for the richer medium. As a result, it is unfair to compare a version which one friend of mine described as suitable for a Grade 6 pianist with the string version that often defeats good string bands if it isn't thoroughly rehearsed.